Spark Sport: Rugby World Cup 2019

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Networkn
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#2327727 1-Oct-2019 14:06

damo99:

I've just installed Kodi and am using Matt H's add-on. Now I'm getting the best quality stream with 60fps and it looks pretty good.

This. Same here. How can Matt H managed to achieved something that Spark Sport couldn't?

I believe they could have done this, but due to underestimating what was required when they took on this project, they ran out of time. I consider that really very poor.

The problem is, if they have the deepest pockets, they will get the rights again. Rights holders don't give a rats about the end users, they care about how much money they got up front. They aren't going to see this wasn't a good experience for lots of people, and refuse to give it to them next time. Where for the first 2 RWC's I watched every game of, I had a really positive experience, this time I have had considerable frustration. The only plus side in my view, is the portability of the product.

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#2327743 1-Oct-2019 14:22

networkn:

damo99:

I've just installed Kodi and am using Matt H's add-on. Now I'm getting the best quality stream with 60fps and it looks pretty good.

This. Same here. How can Matt H managed to achieved something that Spark Sport couldn't?

I believe they could have done this, but due to underestimating what was required when they took on this project, they ran out of time. I consider that really very poor.

The problem is, if they have the deepest pockets, they will get the rights again. Rights holders don't give a rats about the end users, they care about how much money they got up front. They aren't going to see this wasn't a good experience for lots of people, and refuse to give it to them next time. Where for the first 2 RWC's I watched every game of, I had a really positive experience, this time I have had considerable frustration. The only plus side in my view, is the portability of the product.

What did Matt achieve? The same as me and heaps of others on my ATV4 which continues to offer me content that works all the time (save AB and the recent audio) ATV, CCu, and the Vu box also seem to work great. It seems to be less capable devices.That and the less capable end users leave these issues, which arent reported by Spark. (As the streams went fine.) ld probably have released it on just a few STB's. That work. Problem solved. Then the world ends as its not on my telly.

We complained when they stopped 60fps, they should then have retuned to 60fps and cut the other devices off. So they cant get the service and play poor. Or send RWC to Terrestrial as we aren't ready for internet live streaming it seems. Well, NZ isnt thats been proven

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#2327764 1-Oct-2019 14:35

tdgeek:

What did Matt achieve? The same as me and heaps of others on my ATV4 which continues to offer me content that works all the time (save AB and the recent audio) ATV, CCu, and the Vu box also seem to work great. It seems to be less capable devices.That and the less capable end users leave these issues, which arent reported by Spark. (As the streams went fine.) ld probably have released it on just a few STB's. That work. Problem solved. Then the world ends as its not on my telly.

We complained when they stopped 60fps, they should then have retuned to 60fps and cut the other devices off. So they cant get the service and play poor. Or send RWC to Terrestrial as we aren't ready for internet live streaming it seems. Well, NZ isnt thats been proven

They clearly aren't less capable if another developer has managed to get 60FPS 1080x playing fine on them?

What he achieved, was he allowed people to get what Spark should have, 60FPS 1080x on the devices Spark say aren't compatible instead of spending $$$ on new hardware. Also worth mentioning I have a flawless Kayo experience on those same devices (So again, doesn't seem a capability issue).

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#2327768 1-Oct-2019 14:41

Before SS was launched it was all about internet congestion. It wont cope, NZ internet will freeze when Married at First Sight clashes with anything. It never happened. It was about dubious devices. When a device isnt supported everyone asks how to get it loaded anyway, and you wonder why this all happens. ATV, Vu, CC, its been bliss. Me and my remote, sorted.

I was miffed when I have to pay for F1 as well as Sky. paid for RWC as well. Oh well, thats life, but viewing wise it all hums. In a few ways its better than Sky, but in any case its very similar, and it works, apart from AB and that audio. My experiences seems to mirror Sparks media releases. Yes there was an audio issue, or whatever, and NO other issues. Thats what my eyes have seen

Not sure how it else could have been served up and avoided any problems TBH. Allowing only a limited set of devices would have been havoc

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#2327772 1-Oct-2019 14:45

networkn:

tdgeek:

What did Matt achieve? The same as me and heaps of others on my ATV4 which continues to offer me content that works all the time (save AB and the recent audio) ATV, CCu, and the Vu box also seem to work great. It seems to be less capable devices.That and the less capable end users leave these issues, which arent reported by Spark. (As the streams went fine.) ld probably have released it on just a few STB's. That work. Problem solved. Then the world ends as its not on my telly.

We complained when they stopped 60fps, they should then have retuned to 60fps and cut the other devices off. So they cant get the service and play poor. Or send RWC to Terrestrial as we aren't ready for internet live streaming it seems. Well, NZ isnt thats been proven

They clearly aren't less capable if another developer has managed to get 60FPS 1080x playing fine on them?

What he achieved, was he allowed people to get what Spark should have, 60FPS 1080x on the devices Spark say aren't compatible instead of spending $$$ on new hardware. Also worth mentioning I have a flawless Kayo experience on those same devices (So again, doesn't seem a capability issue).

So the old devices or low CPU TV's that cannot play 60fps, can play 60fps?

If that's the case, hopefully someone in the know can comment.

Why have you been frustrated when your Kayo works flawlessly? You've been using SS anyway?

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#2327783 1-Oct-2019 15:15

tdgeek:

So the old devices or low CPU TV's that cannot play 60fps, can play 60fps?

If that's the case, hopefully someone in the know can comment.

Why have you been frustrated when your Kayo works flawlessly? You've been using SS anyway?

I don't really think you (want to) understand the issue.

My "old" tv was purchased in December 2018. It's not incapable of running Sport at 1080x 60FPS, it works fine if I use Kayo. It doesn't work fine if I use Spark Sports native app with nothing else. That means, that either Spark doesn't understand how to get it going, or more likely they underestimated what was required and ran out of time to implement it. My Sony TV can play 4K content natively. Unless I am mistaken (and I am happy to be corrected) but decoding 4K at 25/30FPS is more CPU intensive than 1080x @ 60FPS

My "old" android box (4K fireTV) and "old" 2017 Shield TV work perfectly if I use the plugin with Matt, and with Kayo, so it's not a matter of not being able to work either.

Without these two work arounds I would be watching either 720p 30FPS or at best 1080x 30FPS, or perhaps Chromecasting which is a far inferior arm chair solution, or would have had to buy new hardware.

The chances of someone in the know (Spark are the only people who really know) commenting is non existent, they have had ample opportunity to communicate and have opted not to. (I am not talking about the GZ Members for the record as I feel on the whole they have communicated what they knew and if they were allowed which is good of them).

I have used Kayo a number of times, for comparison (Curiosity around picture and sound quality etc), and for when I have had issues. It's my fall back. Mostly I use Spark Sport because I prefer their build up and the commentary and because I paid for it. Despite the claims to the contrary, I don't want SS to fail, I want them to deliver.

tdgeek

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#2327834 1-Oct-2019 15:41

networkn:

tdgeek:

So the old devices or low CPU TV's that cannot play 60fps, can play 60fps?

If that's the case, hopefully someone in the know can comment.

Why have you been frustrated when your Kayo works flawlessly? You've been using SS anyway?

I don't really think you (want to) understand the issue.

My "old" tv was purchased in December 2018. It's not incapable of running Sport at 1080x 60FPS, it works fine if I use Kayo. It doesn't work fine if I use Spark Sports native app with nothing else. That means, that either Spark doesn't understand how to get it going, or more likely they underestimated what was required and ran out of time to implement it. My Sony TV can play 4K content natively. Unless I am mistaken (and I am happy to be corrected) but decoding 4K at 25/30FPS is more CPU intensive than 1080x @ 60FPS

My "old" android box (4K fireTV) and "old" 2017 Shield TV work perfectly if I use the plugin with Matt, and with Kayo, so it's not a matter of not being able to work either.

Without these two work arounds I would be watching either 720p 30FPS or at best 1080x 30FPS, or perhaps Chromecasting which is a far inferior arm chair solution, or would have had to buy new hardware.

The chances of someone in the know (Spark are the only people who really know) commenting is non existent, they have had ample opportunity to communicate and have opted not to. (I am not talking about the GZ Members for the record as I feel on the whole they have communicated what they knew and if they were allowed which is good of them).

I have used Kayo a number of times, for comparison (Curiosity around picture and sound quality etc), and for when I have had issues. It's my fall back. Mostly I use Spark Sport because I prefer their build up and the commentary and because I paid for it. Despite the claims to the contrary, I don't want SS to fail, I want them to deliver.

Its not that I dont want to understand so lets not go there, ok .

I'm curious. We all have the same data. When Spark comment about an issue, well at least what I read in the Herald is rthat there may or may not have been an issue, take that audio for one example. There were after that NO other issues. I agree, but many have issues, they are on unsupported devices

Back to the devices. There were a number turned into unsupported after the 30fps issue, because they cannot reliably play 60, this leaves a number of older devices that from Spark's view (rightly or wrongly) you should not use. I see there will be three sets of devices. The ones that wont or are poor, the ones that are great, and the ones that are marginal. They may play fine but aren't reliable, or can't manage bitrate changes, so to avoid issues, they are excluded

It would be good to know the devices used when there was "a myriad of issues" after that audio issue. Also what iSP's feed is compared to Kayo. It does seem odd that SS which the app doesnt do any decoding (I assume) on older devices, while all of these play beautifully on Kayo, all the time. Its like magic.

Spark do comment, they say no issues, as the supported devices have no issues. They are not interested in unsupported devices, which is your point. Id really love to know why 60 fps doesnt play well on SS and it does elsewhere. The device is doing the decoding, not the app. Is the feed to Kayo the same as from iSP?

Maybe Kayo gets a simpler feed, maybe iSP's feed carries more data. I'd like to know the outcome, perhaps that may come one day. All I can suggest is that the supported devices such as my ATV4 hum, you wont see me on here or Stuff comments discussing issues unless its global. yes, I know thats not your outcome at the moment

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#2327888 1-Oct-2019 17:13

msparkus4378:

Sorry, quoted multiple posters by mistake. Was refering to eracode's post saying 2008 and 2009. Read it as they were using a 10 year old TV at first.

Well you read it correctly but I was stupidly wrong - wrote 2008 and 2009 - meant 2018 and 2019. Sorry.

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vexxxboy

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#2327943 1-Oct-2019 17:47

networkn:

The problem is, if they have the deepest pockets, they will get the rights again. Rights holders don't give a rats about the end users, they care about how much money they got up front. They aren't going to see this wasn't a good experience for lots of people, and refuse to give it to them next time. Where for the first 2 RWC's I watched every game of, I had a really positive experience, this time I have had considerable frustration. The only plus side in my view, is the portability of the product.

not sure they have or will, are they willing to pay out 250 million for the rugby rights as sky are reported to be doing , and im pretty sure Sky will bid anything to get the RWC back , the boss has pretty much said so.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2327947 1-Oct-2019 18:01

To those comparing Matt's kodi addon to SS.

Remember a few things.. The player is a very well defined project at this stage, having already gone through it's growth pains.

the Kodi addon isn't accounting for supporting tons of different usecases, so it's scope is heavily limited.

The Kodi addon may not have gone through all the same requirements as spark sport.

The Kodi addon is built for one platform, Kodi.

Lastly, an example from 1 page back, the Kodi addon isn't perfect. But yes, in some usecases, it seems to preform very well.

kiwifidget:

I was using the Kodi+Matt combo last night and got a video freeze at 65:16 in the Scotland v Samoa game. The audio continued uninterrupted. I had to restart the stream to get the video back, lost about 3 minutes of play all up.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

tdgeek

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#2327979 1-Oct-2019 19:50

vexxxboy:

networkn:

The problem is, if they have the deepest pockets, they will get the rights again. Rights holders don't give a rats about the end users, they care about how much money they got up front. They aren't going to see this wasn't a good experience for lots of people, and refuse to give it to them next time. Where for the first 2 RWC's I watched every game of, I had a really positive experience, this time I have had considerable frustration. The only plus side in my view, is the portability of the product.

not sure they have or will, are they willing to pay out 250 million for the rugby rights as sky are reported to be doing , and im pretty sure Sky will bid anything to get the RWC back , the boss has pretty much said so.

It cant be that much. Without digging out financial reports, IIRC the sports rights had a cost circa 360 Mill. No way is local rugby most of that

tdgeek

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#2327985 1-Oct-2019 19:59

hio77:

To those comparing Matt's kodi addon to SS.

Remember a few things.. The player is a very well defined project at this stage, having already gone through it's growth pains.

the Kodi addon isn't accounting for supporting tons of different usecases, so it's scope is heavily limited.

The Kodi addon may not have gone through all the same requirements as spark sport.

The Kodi addon is built for one platform, Kodi.

Lastly, an example from 1 page back, the Kodi addon isn't perfect. But yes, in some usecases, it seems to preform very well.

kiwifidget:

I was using the Kodi+Matt combo last night and got a video freeze at 65:16 in the Scotland v Samoa game. The audio continued uninterrupted. I had to restart the stream to get the video back, lost about 3 minutes of play all up.

On my recent post I suggested that we had 3 areas. Works perfect, works bad, works marginal. The latter can includes devices/setups that can and do work fine but not 100%. A line needs to be drawn somewhere. Based on Sparks media reports as in "we had no issues at all" they went for safety. Supported devices are AOK. Non supported devices may be crap to AOK. But those using unsupported devices hammer it complaint wise.

Could Spark and Associates have got more devices in the supported area? Unsure, Maybe. Optus had issues. Kayo isnt 110%. If we were all happy with live sport being 2 hours delayed, then Im sure it can be a Netflix reliable effort. But that will make us unhappy. We can make it a 20 second delay but then we expect every device to be supreme. Maybe Spark could have said, use these 4 devices, the rest are your own risk, but whatever way you cut it, its complaints heaven.

Someone mentioned rugby in general. Maybe it may become Spark Sport and TVNZ as in pay tv partnership.

When we see the hours played vs the hours of problems, I think that will be interesting.

vexxxboy

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#2328074 1-Oct-2019 21:13

tdgeek:

vexxxboy:

networkn:

The problem is, if they have the deepest pockets, they will get the rights again. Rights holders don't give a rats about the end users, they care about how much money they got up front. They aren't going to see this wasn't a good experience for lots of people, and refuse to give it to them next time. Where for the first 2 RWC's I watched every game of, I had a really positive experience, this time I have had considerable frustration. The only plus side in my view, is the portability of the product.

not sure they have or will, are they willing to pay out 250 million for the rugby rights as sky are reported to be doing , and im pretty sure Sky will bid anything to get the RWC back , the boss has pretty much said so.

It cant be that much. Without digging out financial reports, IIRC the sports rights had a cost circa 360 Mill. No way is local rugby most of that

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12272097

Common sense is not as common as you think.

tdgeek

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#2328085 1-Oct-2019 21:28

vexxxboy:

tdgeek:

vexxxboy:

networkn:

The problem is, if they have the deepest pockets, they will get the rights again. Rights holders don't give a rats about the end users, they care about how much money they got up front. They aren't going to see this wasn't a good experience for lots of people, and refuse to give it to them next time. Where for the first 2 RWC's I watched every game of, I had a really positive experience, this time I have had considerable frustration. The only plus side in my view, is the portability of the product.

not sure they have or will, are they willing to pay out 250 million for the rugby rights as sky are reported to be doing , and im pretty sure Sky will bid anything to get the RWC back , the boss has pretty much said so.

It cant be that much. Without digging out financial reports, IIRC the sports rights had a cost circa 360 Mill. No way is local rugby most of that

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12272097

5 years, 45 a year, that makes sense.

Spark Sport, $240 per annum 190,000 new subscribers. Sky's declining profit make 45 per year a lot of money. Ok, less what they pay now. Its a risk both ways.

What if Spark and TVNZ shared this? Wheras Sky cannot charge extra, Spark/TVNZ can.

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#2328213 1-Oct-2019 23:19

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

So the old devices or low CPU TV's that cannot play 60fps, can play 60fps?

If that's the case, hopefully someone in the know can comment.

Why have you been frustrated when your Kayo works flawlessly? You've been using SS anyway?

I don't really think you (want to) understand the issue.

My "old" tv was purchased in December 2018. It's not incapable of running Sport at 1080x 60FPS, it works fine if I use Kayo. It doesn't work fine if I use Spark Sports native app with nothing else. That means, that either Spark doesn't understand how to get it going, or more likely they underestimated what was required and ran out of time to implement it. My Sony TV can play 4K content natively. Unless I am mistaken (and I am happy to be corrected) but decoding 4K at 25/30FPS is more CPU intensive than 1080x @ 60FPS

My "old" android box (4K fireTV) and "old" 2017 Shield TV work perfectly if I use the plugin with Matt, and with Kayo, so it's not a matter of not being able to work either.

Without these two work arounds I would be watching either 720p 30FPS or at best 1080x 30FPS, or perhaps Chromecasting which is a far inferior arm chair solution, or would have had to buy new hardware.

The chances of someone in the know (Spark are the only people who really know) commenting is non existent, they have had ample opportunity to communicate and have opted not to. (I am not talking about the GZ Members for the record as I feel on the whole they have communicated what they knew and if they were allowed which is good of them).

I have used Kayo a number of times, for comparison (Curiosity around picture and sound quality etc), and for when I have had issues. It's my fall back. Mostly I use Spark Sport because I prefer their build up and the commentary and because I paid for it. Despite the claims to the contrary, I don't want SS to fail, I want them to deliver.

Its not that I dont want to understand so lets not go there, ok .

I'm curious. We all have the same data. When Spark comment about an issue, well at least what I read in the Herald is rthat there may or may not have been an issue, take that audio for one example. There were after that NO other issues. I agree, but many have issues, they are on unsupported devices

Back to the devices. There were a number turned into unsupported after the 30fps issue, because they cannot reliably play 60, this leaves a number of older devices that from Spark's view (rightly or wrongly) you should not use. I see there will be three sets of devices. The ones that wont or are poor, the ones that are great, and the ones that are marginal. They may play fine but aren't reliable, or can't manage bitrate changes, so to avoid issues, they are excluded

It would be good to know the devices used when there was "a myriad of issues" after that audio issue. Also what iSP's feed is compared to Kayo. It does seem odd that SS which the app doesnt do any decoding (I assume) on older devices, while all of these play beautifully on Kayo, all the time. Its like magic.

Spark do comment, they say no issues, as the supported devices have no issues. They are not interested in unsupported devices, which is your point. Id really love to know why 60 fps doesnt play well on SS and it does elsewhere. The device is doing the decoding, not the app. Is the feed to Kayo the same as from iSP?

Maybe Kayo gets a simpler feed, maybe iSP's feed carries more data. I'd like to know the outcome, perhaps that may come one day. All I can suggest is that the supported devices such as my ATV4 hum, you wont see me on here or Stuff comments discussing issues unless its global. yes, I know thats not your outcome at the moment

Perhaps whatever algorithm that determines bit-rate is not quite up to it with some TV apps or perhaps need to be more aggressive in switching, I know when I stream the NBA, I have the choice to choose my bit-rate which again is an option which isn't available on the SparkSport app, I personally only experienced bitrate drop on SparkSport on a game where two minnows played so any type of capacity constrains would not have been the case. As soon as I switched my WiFi to 5Ghz with 6ms latency, iv had no issues since. I have a Samsung UA43M5500 which is a mid range Smart TV and enjoy 1080p 60fps without a hitch, which really questions CPU etc etc being a limitation to what some users are experiencing :/

Tomorrows AB's game will be a big test, lets see how that goes.

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