Enduring power of attorney (EPA), Heath and care.

Forums › Health and fitness › Enduring power of attorney (EPA), Heath and care.

JaseNZ

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#233609 24-Apr-2018 13:57

I am seeking legal advice on this but my appointment is not for a couple of weeks so I thought I would ask on here if anybody knew about this.

As morbid as it may seem to me this is an important thing that I would like to make sure is taken care of should the need ever arise.

We are having our will updated and I want to include a specific Enduring power of attorney (EPA), Heath and care clause which would give the absolute right for somebody to authorize 2 things, non resuscitation which I think I can have in my will anyway but also the ability for somebody to say yes to turning off life support should it be deemed fit.

I have no idea on current medical law and I am unable to find a definable answer that you can assign the responsibility to make this decision (in conjunction with the doctor) outside of your family.

My Wife does not want or could make this decision so I think it is important that I have somebody that I trust implicitly to be able to make this decision should it need to be made.

Any views on this ??

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

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#2001655 24-Apr-2018 14:12

An EPA is a separate form from your will. Which makes sense, since an EPA kicks in when you're (just) sick, while a will is only relevant... later.

You can do a DIY EPA online using various services for cheap, but a lawyer is probably a better bet if you're doing other stuff anyway.

There's some good information and the standard forms on the Ministry of Justice website.

Coil

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#2001656 24-Apr-2018 14:12

As a young person who has no will or anything should I consider appointing one or writing a will? Sorry to half hijack your thread but I am curious.

Cheers

mdf

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#2001657 24-Apr-2018 14:16

Having re-read you post, you had some specific queries. I think this explanation on the MOJ website answers these, albeit with some circumlocution around the switching off life support point.

https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/standard-explanation-epa-personal-care-and-welfare.pdf

Personally, I am with you. I would totally want life support removed if I was in that kind of state with no/extremely slim possibility of recovery.

notesgnome

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#2001660 24-Apr-2018 14:24

Coil:

As a young person who has no will or anything should I consider appointing one or writing a will? Sorry to half hijack your thread but I am curious.

Cheers

EVERYONE should have a will. If you're young and don't have much, then it can be a very simple "x gets 40% of the cash value of everything, y gets 60% of the cash value of everything." That way it covers you if your financial situation changes. Obviously, it should be reviewed when big life changes (house, marriage, divorce, etc) happen, but at least your remaining family have one less thing to worry about at a very stressful time should the worst happen to you.

</end half hijack response>

mdf

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#2001661 24-Apr-2018 14:25

@Coil

If you don't have a will, the short answer is yes, you should have one. If you die intestate (no will) there are certain default rules that apply. In order, your stuff would go to:

spouse/partner
children
parents
siblings

Even if you are happy with that, you are still potentially leaving those persons a bit of a mess to clean up since they will likely have to go to Court to be appointed an administrator of your estate (this still has to happen if you die with a will, but is more straightforward).

With a pretty basic estate (e.g. I leave it all to my parents/spouse/brother/sister), you can do an online will for around $20 max (occasionally free). This is much less than the legal fees that will be involved in dying intestate.

About the one time it is might not be worthwhile getting a will is if you have own less than 15K gross - some special rules do apply then. Even then, for the sake of $20, 15 minutes online (and then admittedly some mucking around as you try and find some non-related witnesses to watch you sign), you are saving your loved ones some grief later.

If you are married, about to get married, previously married, have kids/step kids, then there is no question, you need a will.

Coil

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#2001663 24-Apr-2018 14:28

Thank you @mdf, Really appreciate your response. I think I need a will to be written up.

Also, @mspec, Make sure you leave your BMW's to me in your will, You'd hate for the wife to sell them for 'what you paid for them' aye :)

kryptonjohn

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#2001665 24-Apr-2018 14:31

Mspec:

I am seeking legal advice on this but my appointment is not for a couple of weeks so I thought I would ask on here if anybody knew about this.

As morbid as it may seem to me this is an important thing that I would like to make sure is taken care of should the need ever arise.

We are having our will updated and I want to include a specific Enduring power of attorney (EPA), Heath and care clause which would give the absolute right for somebody to authorize 2 things, non resuscitation which I think I can have in my will anyway but also the ability for somebody to say yes to turning off life support should it be deemed fit.

I have no idea on current medical law and I am unable to find a definable answer that you can assign the responsibility to make this decision (in conjunction with the doctor) outside of your family.

My Wife does not want or could make this decision so I think it is important that I have somebody that I trust implicitly to be able to make this decision should it need to be made.

Any views on this ??

A friend of mine asked for my permission to put my name down on a document prepared by his solicitor as having this resus yes or no right.

He subsequently has got married and had kids so thanks for the reminder I must check if that's been rescinded!

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mdf

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#2001666 24-Apr-2018 14:32

For those looking for an easy way of leaving @Coil their cars, a buddy of mine runs this (currently on discount):

https://www.lawhawk.nz/documents/trusts-and-estates/WILL001A/Online-Will.html

There are also automated EPA forms. As a word of caution, it is really intended for those in a straightforward position (in particular, not divorced or in other "complicated" family situations). You should speak to a family lawyer then. But if you just want to leave everything to your siblings/parents/Coil, the online forms are as good as any.

There are plenty of other alternatives online too.

kryptonjohn

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#2001667 24-Apr-2018 14:33

Coil:

Thank you @mdf, Really appreciate your response. I think I need a will to be written up.

Also, @mspec, Make sure you leave your BMW's to me in your will, You'd hate for the wife to sell them for 'what you paid for them' aye :)

I believe that it is still expected that solicitors prepare (basic) wills free of charge.

JaseNZ

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#2001672 24-Apr-2018 14:34

mdf:

Having re-read you post, you had some specific queries. I think this explanation on the MOJ website answers these, albeit with some circumlocution around the switching off life support point.

https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/standard-explanation-epa-personal-care-and-welfare.pdf

Personally, I am with you. I would totally want life support removed if I was in that kind of state with no/extremely slim possibility of recovery.

Yes I have already read though all this which is fine although very ambigious as there is no mention of decision to remove life support.

Could it be assumed to be pro rata along with all the other responsibilities they have power over.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

ANglEAUT

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#2001692 24-Apr-2018 14:56

mdf: For those looking for an easy way of leaving @Coil their cars, a buddy of mine runs this (currently on discount): ...

Thx for all the handy links.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

JaseNZ

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#2001693 24-Apr-2018 14:56

kryptonjohn:

Coil:

Thank you @mdf, Really appreciate your response. I think I need a will to be written up.

Also, @mspec, Make sure you leave your BMW's to me in your will, You'd hate for the wife to sell them for 'what you paid for them' aye :)

I believe that it is still expected that solicitors prepare (basic) wills free of charge.

Hahaha, roger that on the Bmw's

Lawyer's and free I don't think I have ever seen those two words in one sentence before.

I will be getting a lawyer to do both the (EPA) and update our will as I want it locked down tight with no re course available.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

afe66

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#2001704 24-Apr-2018 15:14

Pick your power of attorney person with care.
Preferably someone who knows your outlook on life and ideally is younger than you.

Discuss more than turning you off.

What about organ retrieval, ECT, joining trials where you can't consent ie ICU trials, blood transfusions.

In what circumstances would you not want to have an operation?

Do you want CPR if found unresponsive on a hospital ward? How about if something happened during an operation ? Good CPR will fracture multiple ribs which may take months to heal.

While being having life support removed is the high profile example of POAs, pragmatically they are less common than deciding whether a confused person needs an operation. Ie elderly person gets confused falls out of bed and needs a hip replacement etc.

(personal experience)

jonathan18

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#2001709 24-Apr-2018 15:25

“Free” wills from firms tend to come with such fishhooks as them taking a substantial cut at the point of the will being executed - this was the model of the Public Trust for example (may still be?).

I recall a relatively recent thread on the cost of having wills drawn up; the amounts did vary significantly.

Note there are two forms of EPoA - that for property can be enabled prior to the named person being incapacitated.

Fred99

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#2001710 24-Apr-2018 15:26

If there's anything left for my kids - I've seriously miscalculated.

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