Doctors, Prescriptions and Side Effects

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cadman

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#1734616 10-Mar-2017 23:44

richms:

My GP also explained to me about side effects that they basically list it if it happened to 1 person on the trial even if they did not know how it happened, since they cant prove that it was not the drugs under trial, which is why there are so many listed on things that never actually happen.

Not sure that's correct. I would expect they'd only need to list it as a side effect if the incidence of the apparent side effect was at a higher rate higher than that in the general population plus the likely margin of error for a small sample as in a trial.

gzt

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#1734665 11-Mar-2017 09:13

OP needs to see a specialist as soon as possible. Preferably sooner. The issue could be caused by the medication or a different and undiagnosed condition.

Rikkitic

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#1734694 11-Mar-2017 10:25

MikeB4:

I have a chronic condition, I learnt very quickly never read the internet for drug advice, doing so will put you off even taking the water to swallow them. Always talk with your health Professionals including the Pharmacist.

This.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Batman

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#1734700 11-Mar-2017 11:05

cadman:
richms:

My GP also explained to me about side effects that they basically list it if it happened to 1 person on the trial even if they did not know how it happened, since they cant prove that it was not the drugs under trial, which is why there are so many listed on things that never actually happen.

Not sure that's correct. I would expect they'd only need to list it as a side effect if the incidence of the apparent side effect was at a higher rate higher than that in the general population plus the likely margin of error for a small sample as in a trial.

technically incorrect.

Drugs under trial is not trialled on its own. It's compared to a sugar pill.

So those uni students (whoever is male, healthy, not taking other medication, young, and need money) taking the pills don't know if they're taking active drug or blank tablet.

Side effects are then reported. So yes, for these pills we absolutely know if the side effects were caused by the drug. The amazing thing is people taking sugar pills also report some amazing side effects. This is called nocebo effect.

Extremely rare effects are usually not discovered until about 10 years after release of a medication. These are picked up by your doctor reporting them to a centralised database.

Fred99

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#1734888 11-Mar-2017 17:13

joker97:

Side effects are then reported. So yes, for these pills we absolutely know if the side effects were caused by the drug. The amazing thing is people taking sugar pills also report some amazing side effects. This is called nocebo effect.

Extremely rare effects are usually not discovered until about 10 years after release of a medication. These are picked up by your doctor reporting them to a centralised database.

Well you hope that's the way it works, but not always the case and sorry to link to what's probably not the most wonderful source of unbiased information, but as far as I can tell the examples given do refer to actual events - arguing about whether this was 100% "error or omission" or something more ominous was going on is another subject:

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/6-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-were-buried-so-big-pharma-could-make-money

Possibly google the individual drugs mentioned for better information.

I'd normally not post stuff like that, but I'm extremely concerned that Trump is keen on deregulating the pharma industry - which if combined with his anti-science and pro-business stance, would be a disaster.

Pretty sure my mother died of sudden cardiac arrest which was an unknown side effect of medication she was taking, in that case this side effect wasn't known until almost a decade after she died, there's no way of knowing for sure. (I'm not "blaming" anybody there - but perhaps an example that all drugs have risks, even with best practice mistakes can happen and they can be fatal.
I believe that drug was in relatively widespread use for about 50 years (now withdrawn).

dipkiwi

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#1735757 13-Mar-2017 14:02

Here is a good public lecture from Professor Dee Mangin on doctors perhaps been too eager to prescribe drugs without looking at the big picture and the harm that is causing...

https://youtu.be/sHw_c32a76I

MikeAqua

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#1735787 13-Mar-2017 14:34

I'm a flixonase user. I recall that side-effect is on the leaflet in the box.

But best practice is that your doctor talk you through side effects of every medication.

But they never do. In my experience doctors are in more of a hurry than courier drivers. Blame the per-capita funding model.

Mike

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MikeB4

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#1735798 13-Mar-2017 14:47

MikeAqua:

I'm a flixonase user. I recall that side-effect is on the leaflet in the box.

But best practice is that your doctor talk you through side effects of every medication.

But they never do. In my experience doctors are in more of a hurry than courier drivers. Blame the per-capita funding model.

The Pharmacist is the professional better equiped to talk to regarding side affects and interactions of medications.

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#1735971 13-Mar-2017 20:02

Fred99:

joker97:

Side effects are then reported. So yes, for these pills we absolutely know if the side effects were caused by the drug. The amazing thing is people taking sugar pills also report some amazing side effects. This is called nocebo effect.

Extremely rare effects are usually not discovered until about 10 years after release of a medication. These are picked up by your doctor reporting them to a centralised database.

Well you hope that's the way it works, but not always the case and sorry to link to what's probably not the most wonderful source of unbiased information, but as far as I can tell the examples given do refer to actual events - arguing about whether this was 100% "error or omission" or something more ominous was going on is another subject:

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/6-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-were-buried-so-big-pharma-could-make-money

Possibly google the individual drugs mentioned for better information.

I'd normally not post stuff like that, but I'm extremely concerned that Trump is keen on deregulating the pharma industry - which if combined with his anti-science and pro-business stance, would be a disaster.

Pretty sure my mother died of sudden cardiac arrest which was an unknown side effect of medication she was taking, in that case this side effect wasn't known until almost a decade after she died, there's no way of knowing for sure. (I'm not "blaming" anybody there - but perhaps an example that all drugs have risks, even with best practice mistakes can happen and they can be fatal.
I believe that drug was in relatively widespread use for about 50 years (now withdrawn).

Some difference in the direction of the posts - a question was raised as to whether side effects are randomly written down on the pack - the answer was no they're not randomly made up, they are real effects reported by the testers.

Of course if the company chooses to hide serious indirect information there's nothing we can do until it's found out. Eventually some clever guy will find out. Direct data are usually fatal to the release of drug, for example if people who take it start dying like flies there's no way to hide it. But people who take it gets a higher chance of a heart attack later - is easier to hide. And when money is made, ethics go out the door. The public should be assured that doctors get no kickbacks from prescribing drugs in this country. Right?

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#1735984 13-Mar-2017 20:19

dipkiwi:

Here is a good public lecture from Professor Dee Mangin on doctors perhaps been too eager to prescribe drugs without looking at the big picture and the harm that is causing...

https://youtu.be/sHw_c32a76I

yes your body is very complicated.

there is rarely one problem that can be fixed by one pill.

this lecture basically shows that pills have side effects ranging from - no benefit to too much harmful side effects.

you'd expect that. after all, your health is controlled by your genes, your environment (inc diet sleep and exercise) and medication. medication alone will not change anything usually. especially since your genes dictate everything - ever wondered why the 150kg fella eating only fast food and smokes like a chimney doesn't die while the exercise freak next door drops dead while exercising?

now this is something that's been bothering me a lot : people just want a pill to fix their lives -

did you know there are some clever guys trying to research the possibility that antidepressant drugs increases suicidality .... now that's food for thought.

dipkiwi

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#1736577 14-Mar-2017 22:17

joker97: yes your body is very complicated.

Yes I agree, and one of my gauges of being healthy is not being on any drugs as I get older. And so far so good. I'm not taking any prescription medications whatsoever and intend to keep it that way for as long as possible.

The talk mentions the problems of adverse drug reactions from been on multiple drugs. As far as I'm concerned the fewer the better, and even none is ideal.

blakamin

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#1736585 14-Mar-2017 22:37

joker97:

now this is something that's been bothering me a lot : people just want a pill to fix their lives -

did you know there are some clever guys trying to research the possibility that antidepressant drugs increases suicidality .... now that's food for thought.

Are you connecting these 2?

SSRIs have had the warning of suicide for years.

From MayoClinic.org

Suicide risk and antidepressants

Most antidepressants are generally safe, but the FDA requires that all antidepressants carry black box warnings, the strictest warnings for prescriptions. In some cases, children, teenagers and young adults under 25 may have an increase in suicidal thoughts or behavior when taking antidepressants, especially in the first few weeks after starting or when the dose is changed.

Anyone taking an antidepressant should be watched closely for worsening depression or unusual behavior. If you or someone you know has suicidal thoughts when taking an antidepressant, immediately contact your doctor or get emergency help

Batman

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#1736640 15-Mar-2017 07:45

I'm not a mood expert so i prefer not to mention specifics.

All i know is this generation that expect nothing less than fast food and free hand outs also expect instant cures have no idea what They're getting themselves into when taking mood stabilizers.

I'm not qualified to say any more than what the papers say. Anyway, expect Fairfax to report on this in the next 80 hours!

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