COVID-19 specific planning - Balancing Complacency & Panic

Forums › Health and fitness › COVID-19 specific planning - Balancing Complacency & Panic

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#2436933 12-Mar-2020 15:06

Scott3:

Ah, yes. If you individually need to quarantine yourself for a short period (say due to being exposed to the virus at work), services like ubereats, and countdown delivery would mean little risk of going hungry for anybody in a major urban area, with some money on a credit card.

As we've already seen in Australia and the US, some people live pay to pay, and will continue to go to work when they're sick just so they can afford to pay rent and eat. Without measures to address situations like this, containing the virus isn't realistic.

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#2436989 12-Mar-2020 15:56

mattwnz:

surfisup1000:

Why would you close schools? Youth don't appear to be at risk.

However, close down the school and medical professionals need to take time off work to look after their school-less children.

Yes, children are perfect spreaders of this. Their hygiene practices are also often not up to the level of an adult either, especially young children who don't know any better. I remember as a kid I had a germ phobia after watching an educational film about viruses and how they spread.

Contagion.

Because kids can be carriers just like any human. Just try stopping a kid from touching their nose, picking their nose, putting their hands in their pockets where that snot ridden hanky lives. Not washing their hands after toileting. Touching each other.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

frednz

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#2436994 12-Mar-2020 16:04

I've bought a few extra cartons of long-life milk and some additional cans of fish, fruit, corn, spaghetti.and blocks of chocolate etc, but because we only have a very small freezer, I haven't been able to stock up on frozen foods, which would be desirable if we had to self isolate for a few weeks.

I still haven't been able to buy hand sanitiser, which is now quite serious considering how important it is to keep your hands clean. I realise that the use of soap and water is probably better, but it would be good to always have alcohol-based sanitiser with you for use after you leave a supermarket, garage or cash machine etc (in other words when soap and running water aren't available or nearby)! I have used a small bottle of liquid soap after being in a supermarket, but without running water it's a bit of a compromise!

Incidentally, silly question, but can you use rubber gloves to access cash machines or do they require bare hands? I saw a couple of people in the supermarket wearing yellow gloves so perhaps that's not a bad idea?

And, of course, you can't buy face masks, which again is quite silly in times like this!

Oh, and I think I'll buy a new 64kWh Hyundai Kona electric vehicle in case petrol supplies aren't maintained. This will only cost me $84,000, but current owners tell me it's worth it! No, that's no good because the delivery time is many months, so a second-hand Nissan Leaf will have to do even though replacement batteries cost around $20,000 if you buy an old one or a dud!

surfisup1000

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#2436998 12-Mar-2020 16:07

FineWine:

Because kids can be carriers just like any human.

I prefer a scientific evidence based approach, rather than making assumptions. This article directly contradicts your statement.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-case-children-infants-low-disease-expert-explain-why-2020-2?r=US&IR=T

There are likely to be other links that state the opposite.

Covid-19 is not understood very much at all.

If kids do catch and spread this virus, then close schools by all means. But, this is by no means clear.

I am trying to be balanced. If a large number of medical staff need to call in sick because they are caring for their children, then that cannot be a good thing either.

mattwnz

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#2437005 12-Mar-2020 16:18

I was reading some of the reports about what they may do in the UK if it becomes widespread, and one person was saying that if the health system is overloaded, they make have to make the difficult decision on who to treat, and who not to treat. I would never have thought it would come to that in a first world country, with all the planning they should have in place.

Fred99

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#2437022 12-Mar-2020 16:33

vexxxboy:

buying shares in Ubereats.

If this goes to untraceable P2P epidemic level in NZ, I'm not eating any pre-prepared food from outside this home.

I bought some fruit and veges today - watching people pick up and handle fruit etc - I'd wager every avocado had been fingered a dozen times before I picked them up. Don't rely on other people's self-hygiene abilities.

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Scott3

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#2437036 12-Mar-2020 16:52

mattwnz:

I was reading some of the reports about what they may do in the UK if it becomes widespread, and one person was saying that if the health system is overloaded, they make have to make the difficult decision on who to treat, and who not to treat. I would never have thought it would come to that in a first world country, with all the planning they should have in place.

This is the situation in Italy right now. They basically are decide who is going to live or die in triage...

I recommend that everybody take's additional steps to avoid the need for hospital care over the next few month's. (For example, avoiding extreme sports, not climbing on the roof for non-critical maintenance, taking extra care around slip's & falls at home such using floor mats in the bathroom.

Scott3

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#2437038 12-Mar-2020 16:54

Fred99:

If this goes to untraceable P2P epidemic level in NZ, I'm not eating any pre-prepared food from outside this home.

I bought some fruit and veges today - watching people pick up and handle fruit etc - I'd wager every avocado had been fingered a dozen times before I picked them up. Don't rely on other people's self-hygiene abilities.

Order hot food then chuck it in the microwave untill it is steaming hot. Temperature kills most things, I assume viruses are included.

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#2437061 12-Mar-2020 17:36

surfisup1000:
I prefer a scientific evidence based approach, rather than making assumptions.

I guess many people prefer not use a scientific based approach, relying on only assumptions. that includes health and safety who legislate patachutes.

https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459

is the any evidence for schools in the first place?

mattwnz

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#2437066 12-Mar-2020 17:44

Fred99:

vexxxboy:

buying shares in Ubereats.

If this goes to untraceable P2P epidemic level in NZ, I'm not eating any pre-prepared food from outside this home.

I bought some fruit and veges today - watching people pick up and handle fruit etc - I'd wager every avocado had been fingered a dozen times before I picked them up. Don't rely on other people's self-hygiene abilities.

How long would the virus remain on surfaces for? eg fresh food in the supermarket that has been handled? It is something I hadn't thought about. I see one of the WHO emergency recommendations, is that people regularly clean down and disinfect work surfaces, especially those that are in regular contact with peoples hands.

Stu

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#2437067 12-Mar-2020 17:49

I'm not convinced anyone actually knows the answer. Plenty of speculation, but the period of time keeps changing. From no time at all, to hours or days. An actual answer from an actual knowledgeable scientist/doctor/virologist/crystal ball gazer (not so much that last one!) would be helpful.

ETA: Maybe it depends on the strain?

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Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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Batman

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#2437100 12-Mar-2020 19:01

Stu:

I'm not convinced anyone actually knows the answer. Plenty of speculation, but the period of time keeps changing. From no time at all, to hours or days. An actual answer from an actual knowledgeable scientist/doctor/virologist/crystal ball gazer (not so much that last one!) would be helpful.

ETA: Maybe it depends on the strain?

the Joe Regan podcast on youtube with the infectious disease expert was talking for 1.5 hrs. he said there is no evidence for handwashing in stopping spread of sars-cov-2. he said the reason handwashing is advised is just so the public have something to do.

i challenge all evidence based people to not wash their hands :)

Fred99

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#2437103 12-Mar-2020 19:06

mattwnz:

How long would the virus remain on surfaces for? eg fresh food in the supermarket that has been handled? It is something I hadn't thought about. I see one of the WHO emergency recommendations, is that people regularly clean down and disinfect work surfaces, especially those that are in regular contact with peoples hands.

Based on testing using closely related SARS CoV-1, I think up to 9 days on surfaces. Of course it depends on many things, even if survival on food/produce isn't as long as that, even if only hours, it still seems likely to be plenty long enough for that to be a hazard.

Fred99

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#2437111 12-Mar-2020 19:22

Stu:

I'm not convinced anyone actually knows the answer. Plenty of speculation, but the period of time keeps changing. From no time at all, to hours or days. An actual answer from an actual knowledgeable scientist/doctor/virologist/crystal ball gazer (not so much that last one!) would be helpful.

ETA: Maybe it depends on the strain?

I think it's really hard to test. The rRT PCR test might show the viral RNA is still present, but that doesn't confirm that the virus is still active/viable. Need to grow cultures using swabs in a lab, then test. But it's a safe bet it's like SARS. I believe tests on that show that it survives longer in low temps/humidity, less at higher temperatures. But you really don't want to store avocados at 40c where it may only last hours - so if it gets to the point where we need to really be careful, then IMO transmission via food that's been handled has to be a a risk.

Fecal-oral route is a real possibility, but AFAIK while it's 100% certain that infected people shed the virus in faeces, it's not 100% established that say drinking contaminated water is a definite risk. OTOH, if some dimwit in a market is infected, you're at the mercy of how well they wash their hands after doing a #2. Handle the produce, then touch your face without washing your hands thoroughly, and yes - you could get infected.

I am not an expert, just a amateur with a science background who has been fascinated by the subject for decades.

dafman

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#2437112 12-Mar-2020 19:28

Batman:

the Joe Regan podcast on youtube with the infectious disease expert was talking for 1.5 hrs. he said there is no evidence for handwashing in stopping spread of sars-cov-2. he said the reason handwashing is advised is just so the public have something to do.

i challenge all evidence based people to not wash their hands :)

That's total bollocks and you are irresponsible for spreading unsubstantiated crap where there's so much at risk!

(One of the reasons I'm not on Facebook is to avoid this type of crap, yet it pops up here on GZ)

All virologists say that handwashing is totally effective as one form of prevention.

Here's a link to a podcast with a virologist outlining why handwashing is effective.

And his qualifications are below which I am sure surpass Joe Rogan's "expert".

Amesh Adalja, MD, is an infectious disease specialist at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security. His work is focused on emerging infectious disease, pandemic preparedness, and biosecurity. Amesh has served on US government panels tasked with developing guidelines for the treatment of plague, botulism, and anthrax. He is an Associate Editor of the journal Health Security, co-editor of the volume Global Catastrophic Biological Risks, and a contributing author for the Handbook of Bioterrorism and Disaster Medicine. Amesh actively practices infectious disease, critical care, and emergency medicine in the Pittsburgh metropolitan area.

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