Keto and Intermittent Fasting

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Technofreak

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#2759509 13-Aug-2021 09:47

I've lost 10 kg since mid March. 90 kg to 80 kg aiming for 75. I'm 175 cm. More importantly my body fat % has gone from over 33% to nearly 27% At 75 kg that should get my body fat % below 25%.

We have a set of Fitbit scales which also measure body fat. I weigh myself every morning after showering. I don't put much focus on the day to day numbers, it's the overall trend that matters and the Fitbit app shows that really well. Fluid intake, time of the evening meal and time of the day you weigh in (early or late start) all affect that days numbers.

I generally eat three meals every day, occasionally skipping breakfast. Portion sizes and not snacking between meals has been what's done it for me. You just have to resist that urge to have snack if you feel peckish.

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timmmay

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#2759512 13-Aug-2021 09:53

I'm on an interesting program right now. Instead of taking things away to try to lose weight the theory is they take away the bad stuff, add in lots of good stuff (whole foods), increase your energy, and make exercise and weight loss easy. There's also a big focus on gut health, and on what you absorb rather than what you eat. I'm only just starting and it's a four month program so we'll see. They say that fasting just puts stress on the body.

tdgeek

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#2759516 13-Aug-2021 10:00

Technofreak: I've lost 10 kg since mid March. 90 kg to 80 kg aiming for 75. I'm 175 cm. More importantly my body fat % has gone from over 33% to nearly 27% At 75 kg that should get my body fat % below 25%.

We have a set of Fitbit scales which also measure body fat. I weigh myself every morning after showering. I don't put much focus on the day to day numbers, it's the overall trend that matters and the Fitbit app shows that really well. Fluid intake, time of the evening meal and time of the day you weigh in (early or late start) all affect that days numbers.

I generally eat three meals every day, occasionally skipping breakfast. Portion sizes and not snacking between meals has been what's done it for me. You just have to resist that urge to have snack if you feel peckish.

My go to snacks are a few crackers with cheese, tomato slice and a sprinkle of Masterfoods

antonknee

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#2759596 13-Aug-2021 11:19

This stuff is all a bit unknown really. Research continues, and studies often conflict with other studies - suspect the reality is we are all different and what works for one may not for another.

End of the day though, these all just boil down to calories in vs calories out. If you eat less than you burn, you will lose weight and vice versa. Keto, IF, whole foods etc are all just different ways to achieve that goal (that may or may not have side benefits of their own around gut health or energy levels or your skin).

Personally I've done intermittent fasting for years, lost around 50kg. It works because it's an easy way to cut out a bunch of calories, and didn't require a lot of thinking, plus I used to get quite nauseous in the morning anyway so eating was the last thing I wanted to do. However it's not a license to go crazy in the non-fasting hours, packing away a bunch of junk food (ie lots of calories) meant I still packed on weight.

landcruiserguy

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#2759639 13-Aug-2021 13:32

tdgeek:

I'm not so sure. Ive lost 10kg, 98 to 88. Little has changed in my diet

1. Cut back on snacks but still have snacks, but more healthier options but not always

2. Activity is unchanged

3. I eat same foods as before, but the key is the portions are smaller, that's been the key for me. No annoying diet to worry about, not missing anything. Sometimes I feel like just a small lunch or dinner so I do that, it all helps

Hey, if it works for you then go for it. Humans are adaptable creatures (we are omnivores) and there are many valid paths to success.

If you follow your logic above and apply it to someone with a drinking problem will be much better off if they switch from spirits to beer. Their health will improve, nobody would argue against that. I would argue that you have to fight the temptation to switch back to spirits though.

I would argue that fasting and low carb are better evolutionary fits for humans which means they are more likely to work for more people. Pre agriculture we had periods of plenty (feasting) and periods of hunger (fasting). You ate what you caught when you caught it rather than reaching for the fridge. It's only when agriculture came in that we had the ability to grow lots and lots of starches and store them. Agriculture was only invented hundreds of thousands of years ago which is fairly recent in the history of the species. If anybody has an interest in this then read the books by Dr Jason Fung as he explains this better than I can.

Our current food induced health crisis is more about addiction and sugar in my opinion. Pure sugar is only a few hundred years old. The brain runs on sugar and humans are evolutionary geared to seek out food. Food companies have spent a hundred years producing food that's addictive as possible. All this means that most people don't stand a chance in this battle of will power.

The solution is simple, avoid refined sugar everywhere. This basically means you can't ear processed food which fits with Dr Fung's rule of not eating anything that comes in a packet.

Everything is habit in this life, not eating before 5pm feels perfectly normal to me and I don't even think about it. It did take me some time to evolve into that but once you have a habit established there is no effort to keep it going.

tdgeek

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#2759651 13-Aug-2021 13:48

landcruiserguy:

tdgeek:

I'm not so sure. Ive lost 10kg, 98 to 88. Little has changed in my diet

1. Cut back on snacks but still have snacks, but more healthier options but not always

2. Activity is unchanged

3. I eat same foods as before, but the key is the portions are smaller, that's been the key for me. No annoying diet to worry about, not missing anything. Sometimes I feel like just a small lunch or dinner so I do that, it all helps

Hey, if it works for you then go for it. Humans are adaptable creatures (we are omnivores) and there are many valid paths to success.

If you follow your logic above and apply it to someone with a drinking problem will be much better off if they switch from spirits to beer. Their health will improve, nobody would argue against that. I would argue that you have to fight the temptation to switch back to spirits though.

I would argue that fasting and low carb are better evolutionary fits for humans which means they are more likely to work for more people. Pre agriculture we had periods of plenty (feasting) and periods of hunger (fasting). You ate what you caught when you caught it rather than reaching for the fridge. It's only when agriculture came in that we had the ability to grow lots and lots of starches and store them. Agriculture was only invented hundreds of thousands of years ago which is fairly recent in the history of the species. If anybody has an interest in this then read the books by Dr Jason Fung as he explains this better than I can.

Our current food induced health crisis is more about addiction and sugar in my opinion. Pure sugar is only a few hundred years old. The brain runs on sugar and humans are evolutionary geared to seek out food. Food companies have spent a hundred years producing food that's addictive as possible. All this means that most people don't stand a chance in this battle of will power.

The solution is simple, avoid refined sugar everywhere. This basically means you can't ear processed food which fits with Dr Fung's rule of not eating anything that comes in a packet.

Everything is habit in this life, not eating before 5pm feels perfectly normal to me and I don't even think about it. It did take me some time to evolve into that but once you have a habit established there is no effort to keep it going.

Not really a good analogy, cutting down on food portions to lose a few kg isn't the same as a drinking problem. I don't have an eating problem. So, reducing calories is a means to an end. Others may go for one of the many fashionable diets, fasting and so on, that's fine too. I don't have any temptations either. For me it's pain free, temptation free and it works, so yes it works for me

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allune

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#2767886 28-Aug-2021 00:49

Dang seeing this thread here is a reminder, I need to re-commit to a healthier lifestyle... I've got all the keto goods but I've just been eating and eating and eating... I haven't been able to sleep early since the pandemic began :( Wish I can start again

RedDinosaur

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#2768150 28-Aug-2021 17:49

landcruiserguy:

tdgeek:

I'm not so sure. Ive lost 10kg, 98 to 88. Little has changed in my diet

1. Cut back on snacks but still have snacks, but more healthier options but not always

2. Activity is unchanged

3. I eat same foods as before, but the key is the portions are smaller, that's been the key for me. No annoying diet to worry about, not missing anything. Sometimes I feel like just a small lunch or dinner so I do that, it all helps

I would argue that fasting and low carb are better evolutionary fits for humans which means they are more likely to work for more people. Pre agriculture we had periods of plenty (feasting) and periods of hunger (fasting). You ate what you caught when you caught it rather than reaching for the fridge. It's only when agriculture came in that we had the ability to grow lots and lots of starches and store them. Agriculture was only invented hundreds of thousands of years ago which is fairly recent in the history of the species. If anybody has an interest in this then read the books by Dr Jason Fung as he explains this better than I can.

Our current food induced health crisis is more about addiction and sugar in my opinion. Pure sugar is only a few hundred years old. The brain runs on sugar and humans are evolutionary geared to seek out food. Food companies have spent a hundred years producing food that's addictive as possible. All this means that most people don't stand a chance in this battle of will power.

The solution is simple, avoid refined sugar everywhere. This basically means you can't ear processed food which fits with Dr Fung's rule of not eating anything that comes in a packet.

Everything is habit in this life, not eating before 5pm feels perfectly normal to me and I don't even think about it. It did take me some time to evolve into that but once you have a habit established there is no effort to keep it going.

The problem with evolution is that it only cares about getting you to reproductive age. The foods that most likely increase your chances to pass on your genes may not be the best for other desires.
Also, I don't see how the fact that we have only recently started to mass produce grains and legumes for example means anything, this is just an appeal to nature? A high grain and legume diet could actually be better.

Theories are good and all, but what does the science say?
It's pretty clear that refined carbs are bad, but haven't seen evidence that you need to not eat beans, in fact the opposite, health outcomes improve.

raytaylor

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#2768218 28-Aug-2021 23:32

I am a fan of keto

I dont cook due to some stuipid stuff in my head - I only eat takeaways or process cooked meals.

I have diabetes in the family and have always shown signs of developing it - hypoglycemia as a teenager and rapid weight gain/loss.

It is well known that intermittant fasting is good at keeping diabetes at bay, and I find i am comfortable with one to 1.5 meals a day.
However there lies the problem... When I do eat, i tend to eat too much.

I will also go through periods of not eating for a week.

I find if i eat anything with carbs in the morning - say a pie for smoko, by 4pm i have a fever, sweating, hungry, pins and needles, shaking.
But once i come down through that "barrier" then i feel fine again and i loose the hunger feeling.

But the problem is when i delay my morning meal. If I am having a busy morning, it means i dont get to eat until lunch, which means I am feeling very hungry and over eat for dinner. I go to bed feeling full and the result is rapid weight gain.

I can also go to the polar opposite into fasting. Again due to stupid stuff in my head.

For various reasons I have been somewhat stressed over the last year which has been a trigger to enter into a few periods where I stop eating for a week or two. I have to force myself to drink mizone flavored water to get some energy and mix in some Enerlyte sachets to get some extra minerals and multivitamin tablets.

However the benefit is rapid weight loss. After about 2-3 days I feel quite alert and awake, and feel quite good - almost like a high. Problem is i dont have the energy for physical work.
I get the "keto flu" symptoms for the first few days but whatever i am worried about is enough to prevent me from being able to eat.

I find if i have been eating my keto meals for a week or two before, transitioning to fasting is much easier.

So yeah - i think success comes down to personality.
Many people will need to diet all their lives. My mother is one of those - she has tried every diet ever invented. And if it giver her some variety while helping to minimize weight gain then thats all good - because the same diet can get boring for some people after a while.

For someone like me who doesnt cook and likes process cooked food then there are some great options. If i have heaps of these in the freezer then i can snack on them as healthier choices.

- Radix keto menu is quite good for a breakfast on the go. My commute to the office is a little over 5 minutes so i put the boiling water into the pack, drive to work and its ready to open when i arrive for my morning meeting. One of the hippie organic guys in the office likes to joke that i am eating my "cat food".

- Muscle fuel for dinner is also good. They use cauliflour as a potato and rice replacement that works very well with similar textures though i would be happier with broccoli. The downside to muscle fuel is you need to order about 2 weeks ahead of delivery.
I recommend Not a burger burger, tex mex beef, roast beef and mac, beef stroganoff

- Weight watchers Beef Burgundy. This is no longer avaliable but i could eat these as a snack anytime for breakfast lunch and dinner and no matter how many of them i ate, i always lost weight. It was easy for me to go several weeks eating just those. It was like a casserole. Unfortunatley countdown stopped selling them. WW replaced it for a honey soy noodle with the same number of calories, but as noodles make me sleepy, and have more carbs, I couldnt eat them. I really want it to come back.

Someone further up said the breakfast being the most important meal of the day is a lie.
I disagree.
I think breakfast is indeed important, lunch less so.
If i can have a keto dinner-type meal for breakfast then i am less likely to need to go to the dairy for a pie or mcdonalds for lunch during the day.

If you must go to mcdonalds, order a big mac without the bun to cut out most of the carbs and half the calories.
I used to order a bigmac with extra sauce, cheese and an extra patty and have it served in a salad bowel. Unfortunatley now the "no buns" thing has become a standard menu item, the staff at mcdonalds can no longer grasp the simple idea of serving it in a salad bowl with a knife and fork - it now comes wrapped in lettuce in a box.

And KFC chicken is reasonably dirty-keto friendly. I dont like the chicken pieces as they are too messy to eat but i do like a chicken patty - so occasionally i will go to kfc and get a double down and eat it with a knife and fork.

When the KFC chicken is out of season, you can go to St Pieres / Bento Bowl and get a katsu chicken bowl without rice. They also do a katsu chicken burger which I would describe as a premium quality version of a KFC double-down.

So yes as you can see i am one of those people that are forever doomed to cycle between loss and gain.

A couple of the guys at work have had success just replacing bread, pastry, pasta, potatos and rice with more meat, coleslaw and nuts. Though their wives cook dinner most nights so it was easy for them because they didnt have to make a choice each night - it was always chosen for them. I am single and choosing to be lazy by getting takeaways is usually what happens.

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