Negotiating with car dealers

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#1282032 13-Apr-2015 12:40

Bee: So the car dealer wanted your car + $4500 cash???

Yep

Then he would have slapped $13k on mine and make another $4500k.

I think alot of them don't realise there is this thing called the internet that gives the public access to Japanese auctions...No doubt the 3.0R legacy I was wanting could be landed for $8500, again I dont want the hassle.

lxsw20

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#1282033 13-Apr-2015 12:41

Good luck to you, but I think like Wade and a few others have said above, there are a few too many red flags, especially when the dealer has to honor the CGA.

heylinb4nz

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#1282034 13-Apr-2015 12:41

Wade: "So its a modified boyracer mobile that has probably been thrashed to within an inch of its life..." <--- this is probably how a dealer would see it i.e. a liability, the dealer takes on CGA requirements when on-selling the car so needs to allow for unforeseen costs associated with selling througha retail channel

Given the facts though, reality is that it is probably not that a desirable car to the car buying majority, the dealer is probably thinking if only it was a nice little automatic NZ new granny model I'd be able to sell it before the end of the week :P

Fast fours in Auckland have been catering to that market for years...their must be some interest.

Wade

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#1282077 13-Apr-2015 12:54

heylinb4nz:
Wade: "So its a modified boyracer mobile that has probably been thrashed to within an inch of its life..." <--- this is probably how a dealer would see it i.e. a liability, the dealer takes on CGA requirements when on-selling the car so needs to allow for unforeseen costs associated with selling througha retail channel

Given the facts though, reality is that it is probably not that a desirable car to the car buying majority, the dealer is probably thinking if only it was a nice little automatic NZ new granny model I'd be able to sell it before the end of the week :P

Fast fours in Auckland have been catering to that market for years...their must be some interest.

Their yard has changed drastically over that time, once upon a time that place was JDM car porn, now or at least the last time i cared to look it was predominantly filled with unaffordable but truly beautiful late model German and Italian porn :P

heylinb4nz

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#1282078 13-Apr-2015 12:57

Wade:
heylinb4nz:
Wade: "So its a modified boyracer mobile that has probably been thrashed to within an inch of its life..." <--- this is probably how a dealer would see it i.e. a liability, the dealer takes on CGA requirements when on-selling the car so needs to allow for unforeseen costs associated with selling througha retail channel

Given the facts though, reality is that it is probably not that a desirable car to the car buying majority, the dealer is probably thinking if only it was a nice little automatic NZ new granny model I'd be able to sell it before the end of the week :P

Fast fours in Auckland have been catering to that market for years...their must be some interest.

Their yard has changed drastically over that time, once upon a time that place was JDM car porn, now or at least the last time i cared to look it was predominantly filled with unaffordable but truly beautiful late model German and Italian porn :P

Wow just checked.....you are right :( sad.

Seems perhaps the private market is where to deal with modified JDM stuff. Dealers just seem interesting in selling high km late model stuff at over in-flated prices.

Talkiet

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#1282082 13-Apr-2015 13:02

heylinb4nz: [nitpick] Dealers just seem interesting in selling high km late model stuff at over in-flated prices.

If they are all selling at over-inflated prices then that's actually the price. It's your expectations that are out of step.

Personally I still think we have an astonishingly competitive and affordable used car market here in NZ. I am buying something from Japan directly at the moment (It just left Melbourne hours ago!) but that was due to avaialbility issues, not price.

Cheers -N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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heylinb4nz

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#1282116 13-Apr-2015 13:32

Talkiet:
heylinb4nz: [nitpick] Dealers just seem interesting in selling high km late model stuff at over in-flated prices.

If they are all selling at over-inflated prices then that's actually the price. It's your expectations that are out of step.

Personally I still think we have an astonishingly competitive and affordable used car market here in NZ. I am buying something from Japan directly at the moment (It just left Melbourne hours ago!) but that was due to avaialbility issues, not price.

Cheers -N

I'm pretty specific about my cars, so will most likely have to import direct if I manage to sell the colt. It seems the dealers also know what these specific cars are as well and pump the price up due to rarity

namely

- 2006-2008 Legacy 3.0 R < 100,000 kms, Black, Manual with Leather
- and later next year will be looking for a 2012-2014 Fuga\Skyline\Infinity 370GT Type SP (or VIP)

I do suspect though perhaps my colt is just a little too niche....if only I was in Australia where they have a big following.

mattwnz

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#1282125 13-Apr-2015 13:36

To prevent getting taken for a ride by a car dealer, keep the two transactions (buying a selling) separate. Especially if money is tight. Also buy near the end of the month, as that is when car dealers are more desperate to sell if their volumes for the month have been low.

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#1282127 13-Apr-2015 13:39

heylinb4nz: [snip]
I'm pretty specific about my cars, so will most likely have to import direct if I manage to sell the colt. It seems the dealers also know what these specific cars are as well and pump the price up due to rarity

namely

- 2006-2008 Legacy 3.0 R < 100,000 kms, Black, Manual with Leather
- and later next year will be looking for a 2012-2014 Fuga\Skyline\Infinity 370GT Type SP (or VIP)

I do suspect though perhaps my colt is just a little too niche....if only I was in Australia where they have a big following.

Heh - my car on the water is a 2009 370GT Crossover type P with the tech pack (radar cruise, brake assist, lane departure prevention etc). There were nearly none around a couple of months ago when I was looking - perhaps 2 in all of NZ, and those both had too many km for me - so I ordered one direct. There are a few more now but they are pricey, presumably as they're still quite rare here and only available in high spec.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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#1282128 13-Apr-2015 13:39

I've never traded a car in my life.

Always sell privately and buy from dealer or privately.

A trade-in will always be heavily stacked in the dealer's favour for a great many reasons.

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#1282130 13-Apr-2015 13:44

mattwnz:
Also buy near the end of the month, as that is when car dealers are more desperate to sell if their volumes for the month have been low.

This is true, but I've heard the end of the month can vary from dealer to dealer. The best bet is looking at lot numbers. The older the lot number, the more likely you are to squeeze down on the sticker price.

Was looking for an MR2 that had been on a New Lynn lot for 7 months. He had $10,995 in the window and he was prepared to let it go for $5,500. This seemed too good to be true and came to the conclusion that it had been wound back, but someone else has obviously had the same idea and bought it. The owner has it on TradeMe for $9,500.

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nunz

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#1282131 13-Apr-2015 13:45

heylinb4nz:
KiwiNZ: If your car has a retail value of $12,00 to $13,000 the trade in value would be circa $7,000.

They managed to push it out to $8500.

Trades aside I was wanting to swap a car of equivalent retail value (most likely slightly more) that was higher spec and more appealing (easier sell)..plus $1500 cash their way.

I know its not the usual way it works, but youd think $$$ would be $$$ these days. Surely $1500 is better than $0.

The problem is that you are offering them a 12-13% COST margin whereas they would normally deal in closer to 40% or more margins in order to stay viable.

Let me reverse the scenario - Would you sell your car for $1500 GROSS MARGIN knowing you can get 7000 - 8000 for it?

Add in time spent grooming and servicing the vehicle for sale, x 2 (your new car and your traded in old car) and their profit suddenly looks closer to $1200 than $1500. Subtract tax, GST, acc and numerous other things, and the sales persons commission and there is basically less than $500 in it for the car yard.

That's $7000 to $8000 risked for a $500 profit. I personally wouldn't go down that track.

$1500 is nice cash - compared to say $3000,
less attractive at 12000
and completely rubbish for $100 000

Its not the amount but the profit ratio.

heylinb4nz

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#1282133 13-Apr-2015 13:46

Talkiet:
heylinb4nz: [snip]
I'm pretty specific about my cars, so will most likely have to import direct if I manage to sell the colt. It seems the dealers also know what these specific cars are as well and pump the price up due to rarity

namely

- 2006-2008 Legacy 3.0 R < 100,000 kms, Black, Manual with Leather
- and later next year will be looking for a 2012-2014 Fuga\Skyline\Infinity 370GT Type SP (or VIP)

I do suspect though perhaps my colt is just a little too niche....if only I was in Australia where they have a big following.

Heh - my car on the water is a 2009 370GT Crossover type P with the tech pack (radar cruise, brake assist, lane departure prevention etc). There were nearly none around a couple of months ago when I was looking - perhaps 2 in all of NZ, and those both had too many km for me - so I ordered one direct. There are a few more now but they are pricey, presumably as they're still quite rare here and only available in high spec.

Cheers - N

Nice !!!. Yeah they are prciey, the 2 on Trademe recently (non crossover ones) were like $37,000 (55,000 kms). Out of Japan for about $55,000 landed you can get a low km 2014 Fuga\Skyline 370GT Type SP.

Pics when you get it. !!

heylinb4nz

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#1282144 13-Apr-2015 13:55

nunz:
heylinb4nz:
KiwiNZ: If your car has a retail value of $12,00 to $13,000 the trade in value would be circa $7,000.

They managed to push it out to $8500.

Trades aside I was wanting to swap a car of equivalent retail value (most likely slightly more) that was higher spec and more appealing (easier sell)..plus $1500 cash their way.

I know its not the usual way it works, but youd think $$$ would be $$$ these days. Surely $1500 is better than $0.

The problem is that you are offering them a 12-13% COST margin whereas they would normally deal in closer to 40% or more margins in order to stay viable.

Let me reverse the scenario - Would you sell your car for $1500 GROSS MARGIN knowing you can get 7000 - 8000 for it?

Add in time spent grooming and servicing the vehicle for sale, x 2 (your new car and your traded in old car) and their profit suddenly looks closer to $1200 than $1500. Subtract tax, GST, acc and numerous other things, and the sales persons commission and there is basically less than $500 in it for the car yard.

That's $7000 to $8000 risked for a $500 profit. I personally wouldn't go down that track.

$1500 is nice cash - compared to say $3000,
less attractive at 12000
and completely rubbish for $100 000

Its not the amount but the profit ratio.

Hmm I never really looked at it that way. I thought since mine is groomed and serviced already it would be a matter of taking my $1500 and giving me their $12,990 Legacy then simply sticking my car in the Legacy's place on the yard for $12,990.

$1500 for less than 1 hour work, and they have a car of at least same value as the one I took away.

Imagine as a dealer you could do that deal 3 times per week ? $4500 a week in your pocket and swap lower retail value stock for equivalent or higher retail value stock.

Although most people don't keep their cars in my level of condition or service, so most likely not something that would happen in reality.

mattwnz

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#1282199 13-Apr-2015 14:34

This is a video everyone buying a new car should watch. Also many of the points apply if you are buying second hand. The guy doing the videos is a bit like the new version of the Dog and Lemon guide for the 21st century.

Edit: For some reason I can't embed the video as the code disappears, so this is the link https://www.youtube.com/embed/OJTi4Cu2yF4

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