ESP(VDC etc) vs black ice?

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mdooher

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#1330470 24-Jun-2015 10:19

I got another chance to try this morning on York place... basically a steep sheet of ice. No possibility of stopping, even a touch on the brakes was causing the dreaded 4 wheel slide. However the stability control was working at keeping the car going straight down the hill.

I think it did pretty well. You still need to use skill to not lose control but it turned a white knuckle ride into a mildly perturbing situation

Matthew

DeepBlueSky

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#1330563 24-Jun-2015 12:01

Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

pdath

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#1330568 24-Jun-2015 12:05

DeepBlueSky: Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

A self driving car during emergencies! I'm sure it is great, but that sounds very scary to me.

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DeepBlueSky

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#1330583 24-Jun-2015 12:14

pdath:
DeepBlueSky: Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

A self driving car during emergencies! I'm sure it is great, but that sounds very scary to me.

Here is a YouTube link to the tech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06qAkmvxTvI

pdath

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#1330606 24-Jun-2015 12:27

DeepBlueSky:
pdath:
DeepBlueSky: Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

A self driving car during emergencies! I'm sure it is great, but that sounds very scary to me.

Here is a YouTube link to the tech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06qAkmvxTvI

That still looks super scary. The car assumes you only want to go straight ahead and does so to avoid further slip happening. And the fact that it takes the steering control out of the drivers hands would probably be enough to make me not want to buy a car with this.

Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!

Batman

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#1330613 24-Jun-2015 12:31

mdooher: I got another chance to try this morning on York place... basically a steep sheet of ice. No possibility of stopping, even a touch on the brakes was causing the dreaded 4 wheel slide. However the stability control was working at keeping the car going straight down the hill.

I think it did pretty well. You still need to use skill to not lose control but it turned a white knuckle ride into a mildly perturbing situation

Stuck it into first gear and steer?

mdooher

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#1330617 24-Jun-2015 12:34

pdath:
DeepBlueSky:
pdath:
DeepBlueSky: Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

A self driving car during emergencies! I'm sure it is great, but that sounds very scary to me.

Here is a YouTube link to the tech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06qAkmvxTvI

That still looks super scary. The car assumes you only want to go straight ahead and does so to avoid further slip happening. And the fact that it takes the steering control out of the drivers hands would probably be enough to make me not want to buy a car with this.

Active steering is fantastic, once you use it you won't want to go back...
changes the steering ratio depending on various factors
makes a big car park like a mini
when in sport mode and going through the twisties you hardly have to move the wheel
It is impossible to overcorrect (it takes control of steering and stops the fishtail)

Matthew

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RUKI

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#1330622 24-Jun-2015 12:37

Black ice or just melted snow or rain which turned into the black ice because the temperature accidently dropped in two hours while you were inside. Result is always the same. You can see how some of JDM cars behave. Mind you majority of cars in those videos are wearing spike tyres but some still on a summer tyres (few in the first video and 4WD in the 4-th video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsT1CJ0u07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmyx5V3uCrM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQeWQVpspXY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAfyA-Hus8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKolkNXAPng

But sometimes even spike tyres do not help (he did not have chains):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqk5mu_17PU

And finally - black ice, here we go, been there, vitnessed thousands of times ... Try you "active steering" in those conditions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iuoAffnzek

Good luck with in-car electronics boys!
If you do not have spike tyres and chains, God bless you!
May the spike save the geek!

DravidDavid

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#1330628 24-Jun-2015 12:40

Our Caldina has VSC. It's never been on ice as far as I know.

What I do know is the technology has saved my butt numerous times. But ever since investing in performance tyres, it's never needed to intervene. Nothing substitutes good rubber. Good tyres will save your life.

pdath

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#1330634 24-Jun-2015 12:42

mdooher:
pdath:
DeepBlueSky:
pdath:
DeepBlueSky: Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

A self driving car during emergencies! I'm sure it is great, but that sounds very scary to me.

Here is a YouTube link to the tech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06qAkmvxTvI

That still looks super scary. The car assumes you only want to go straight ahead and does so to avoid further slip happening. And the fact that it takes the steering control out of the drivers hands would probably be enough to make me not want to buy a car with this.

Active steering is fantastic, once you use it you won't want to go back...
changes the steering ratio depending on various factors
makes a big car park like a mini
when in sport mode and going through the twisties you hardly have to move the wheel
It is impossible to overcorrect (it takes control of steering and stops the fishtail)

Do all the Toyota's come out with this now?

Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!

DeepBlueSky

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#1330642 24-Jun-2015 12:52

I have a JDM Vanguard (LWB 4.3 RAV4) it has it, I think it came in around 2007 so most likely higher spec cars then maybe on all Toyota's now but not sure.

mdooher

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#1330645 24-Jun-2015 12:56

pdath:
mdooher:
pdath:
DeepBlueSky:
pdath:
DeepBlueSky: Newer cars have better systems, my current vehicle has AWD, ABS, Downhill assistance etc. that helps. Plus a new feature to me, electric power steering with the steering being part of the stability control so it takes control of the vehicle and turns the steering by itself if you loose control.

A self driving car during emergencies! I'm sure it is great, but that sounds very scary to me.

Here is a YouTube link to the tech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06qAkmvxTvI

That still looks super scary. The car assumes you only want to go straight ahead and does so to avoid further slip happening. And the fact that it takes the steering control out of the drivers hands would probably be enough to make me not want to buy a car with this.

Active steering is fantastic, once you use it you won't want to go back...
changes the steering ratio depending on various factors
makes a big car park like a mini
when in sport mode and going through the twisties you hardly have to move the wheel
It is impossible to overcorrect (it takes control of steering and stops the fishtail)

Do all the Toyota's come out with this now?

well since my 9 year old car has it, I suppose all new cars have it...

Matthew

DravidDavid

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#1330653 24-Jun-2015 13:02

The only issue I see with active steering, is when the car gets old, it will eventually fault for one reason or another.

We recently replaced steering angle sensors to prevent VSC (Vehcile Stability Control) going nuts for no reason. I really wouldn't want my car steering for me for no reason what-so-ever.

mdooher

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#1330662 24-Jun-2015 13:07

DravidDavid: The only issue I see with active steering, is when the car gets old, it will eventually fault for one reason or another.

We recently replaced steering angle sensors to prevent VSC (Vehcile Stability Control) going nuts for no reason. I really wouldn't want my car steering for me for no reason what-so-ever.

I have had a fault with mine, "steering angle sensor reading implausible" It results in immediate lockup of the two halves of the steering column... ie turns it into a Ford. Fortunately for me nothing a little DIY didn't fix

Matthew

DravidDavid

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#1330667 24-Jun-2015 13:12

mdooher:
DravidDavid: The only issue I see with active steering, is when the car gets old, it will eventually fault for one reason or another.

We recently replaced steering angle sensors to prevent VSC (Vehcile Stability Control) going nuts for no reason. I really wouldn't want my car steering for me for no reason what-so-ever.

I have had a fault with mine, "steering angle sensor reading implausible" It results in immediate lockup of the two halves of the steering column... ie turns it into a Ford. Fortunately for me nothing a little DIY didn't fix

Yep, same thing happens to a Caldina. The motor is governed, the diffs lock up and whatever power is left gets sent to all the wrong wheels to prevent you from "skidding". It's a pretty scary experience when you're traveling at 100 kilometers per hour.

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