Mazda Atenza/6 or a Suzuki Swift 1.6 for four people one off trip?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Mazda Atenza/6 or a Suzuki Swift 1.6 for four people one off trip?

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#1683541 6-Dec-2016 23:16

To answer your initial question, the mazda 6 would be a far better road trip vehicle than a suzuki swift.

The mazda6 is mazda's largest sedan (the comparable mazda to the suzuki swift is the mazda 2).

I have a corolla hatchback (the size up from a swift / mazda 2), and went to the snow for the weekend with 4 people (total). Boot was full. (we were renting gear too, so none of that)

The corolla boot is much bigger than that in the swift, also not much space at all in the back of a swift.

Don't worry about engine size. People / cargo space will be a much bigger concern for the trip.

Take a serious look at renting a car for the trip if you were buying for this purpose. Using the next two weeks dates (if you are traveling over the normal New Years busy period, prices will be higher), Apex will give you a Wingroad station wagon for $650, or a Toyota camry for $1021, or a Subaru Legacy wagon for $1111. (If you are the only driver buy domestic travel insurance as a cheaper option than rental car company excess reduction insurance.

If you do decide to go for the trip in a small car, consider getting a roof box to handle the cargo, sometimes they can be picked up cheaply off trade me (new ones are around $1000). If you have somewhere to store it, you can take it off the car for the rest of the year to save windage.

sonyxperiageek

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#1683544 6-Dec-2016 23:28

Yes the Mazda6 is IMO the best car for a road trip. We went down to Wellington from Auckland in a day and 3 extra passengers thought it was very spacious and comfy ride. The boot also has a tonne of space, and the car wasn't hard to park at all.

Sony

CitizenErased

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#1685263 9-Dec-2016 13:29

TeaLeaf:

I dont want anything but a normal 3 speed auto if I can avoid it. :-)

Three speed autos disappeared in the 1980s.

TeaLeaf

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#1685818 10-Dec-2016 18:50

I consider 1, 2 D a 3 speed, and they definitely didnt die in the 80s rofl.

Ive talked her into considering a manual and not a euro car now. The DSG just scared the crap out of me.

So the Axela is a Mazda 3, what version of the Toyota is the Equivalent of the NZ new toyota corolla GL?

jonathan18

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#1685881 10-Dec-2016 20:40

TeaLeaf:
I consider 1, 2 D a 3 speed

Say what now?!

You totally have the right to call a dog a cat, but it doesn't make you factually correct...

TeaLeaf

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#1685898 10-Dec-2016 21:18

too ambiguous.

read above the cars im looking at.

i presume the corolla will be a torque gearbox and the mazda a tiptronic?

TeaLeaf

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#1685914 10-Dec-2016 22:36

In the bigger size cars how do the nissans stack up, the bluebird and Skyline gt250?

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Scott3

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#1686272 11-Dec-2016 23:28

TeaLeaf:

I consider 1, 2 D a 3 speed, and they definitely didnt die in the 80s rofl.

Ive talked her into considering a manual and not a euro car now. The DSG just scared the crap out of me.

So the Axela is a Mazda 3, what version of the Toyota is the Equivalent of the NZ new toyota corolla GL?

Next time you go for a drive in an auto car, count how many gears it goes through to get to top gear.

I have a 2006 Toyota Corolla GL in auto. It starts off in first, and work its way up through three more gears, for a total of four gears (or speeds).

This is typical of (lower end) cars from that era. My column has the 1 2 D configuration you refer to, but what you are unaware of is that there is a fourth gear "Overdrive" (a technical term that just means the output shaft turns faster than the input shaft). If you want to force the transmission down into 3rd (say descending a large hill, and don't want the brakes too hot), then there is a small button under the large gear shifting button that will disable 4th gear. "O/D off" appears on my dash. The manual of my car recommends using this mode the entire time when towing.

There are two Japanese versions of the corolla of the same era as mine. They are the Allex and RunX.

If you want a car with a big interior, but small footprint, perhaps consider something like a toyota IST or funcargo.

TeaLeaf

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#1686352 12-Dec-2016 09:29

To be honest for $5k ish Im not touching a DSG or CVT. If I was buying new for myself I would.

Tiptronic I feel fairly comfortable with.

But yes the toyota GLs have the lovely Auto you speak of.

My older previous Legacy to the Outback was like what you speak of but it had a button on the gearstick and when you put your foot down it took off, 2.5l.

I am looking at NZ new corollas and Axelas now. I cant find an import corolla bigger than 1500cc.

Fred99

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#1686397 12-Dec-2016 10:36

Scott3:

Next time you go for a drive in an auto car, count how many gears it goes through to get to top gear.

I have a 2006 Toyota Corolla GL in auto. It starts off in first, and work its way up through three more gears, for a total of four gears (or speeds).

This is typical of (lower end) cars from that era. My column has the 1 2 D configuration you refer to, but what you are unaware of is that there is a fourth gear "Overdrive" (a technical term that just means the output shaft turns faster than the input shaft). If you want to force the transmission down into 3rd (say descending a large hill, and don't want the brakes too hot), then there is a small button under the large gear shifting button that will disable 4th gear. "O/D off" appears on my dash. The manual of my car recommends using this mode the entire time when towing.

There are two Japanese versions of the corolla of the same era as mine. They are the Allex and RunX.

If you want a car with a big interior, but small footprint, perhaps consider something like a toyota IST or funcargo.

That "OD" on most older autos isn't actually a separate gear-ratio (and as they're FWD with transaxle, the "output" shaft is the axles, so the old terminology is even more redundant as the output rotation after the diff is always lower than than the engine RPM). They just call it "OD" as it's probably too hard to come up with a better description.

The "OD" is actuating the lock-up clutch on the torque converter, bypassing the torque converter itself so that drive is direct through the gearbox. That tends to lower engine RPM and as there's no longer any "slip" and energy loss from the torque converter hydraulic turbine drive, improves fuel efficiency. Cars like that are usually as economical as manuals at cruise on the open road, but use more fuel around town - as the "OD" usually only engages when the car is in top gear. There's usually a temperature control on the transmission computer, so that "OD" won't engage until the car is up to temperature, so on short runs and if the car isn't getting up to correct operating temperature (ie from stuck-open thermostat) then the car will use more fuel.

To improve efficiency of conventional autos so they're relying on less "slip" through the torque converter, they add more gear ratios (first auto I drove was "powerglide" in a GM car, with only two speeds, then GM cars used "trimatic" 3 speed, now they've often got 6 or more forward ratios).

These old "slushbox" autos tend to be smoother shifting than DSG probably (but not always) more reliable than CVT - especially with higher power larger vehicles.

Kind of old-tech, but they're also very complex - my eyes glaze over when I look at an exploded diagram of an auto transmission.

Mazda in particular decided to stick with conventional slushbox autos rather than change to either DSG or CVT. But to meet competition in fuel efficiency, they changed the lock-up clutches in the torque converter making them much larger, and have them lock up in all forward gears instead of just top gear. Time will tell how reliable this is. I'm not aware of big problems with SkyActiv transmissions - but I'd expect that if they do start to wear out, they're also going to be expensive to fix.

We've got an old '90's Nissan (pulsar) with 3 speed + OD trans. We bought it at low km 15 years ago, it's now on its last legs at about 300,000km, used by our son as a runabout. It's worth nothing but keeps going. I've had the engine out of it twice, but I've never touched the transmission - not even a full oil change, only to top up when I've done work on it and lost oil from the torque converter or axle seals. The oil is still clean, red, sweet-smelling, the gearbox quiet, smooth-shifting.

You won't get away with treating any auto trans - slushbox, dsg, or CVT - with that level of neglect in any modern car.

Bung

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#1686532 12-Dec-2016 13:25

Fred99: That "OD" on most older autos isn't actually a separate gear-ratio (and as they're FWD with transaxle, the "output" shaft is the axles, so the old terminology is even more redundant as the output rotation after the diff is always lower than than the engine RPM). They just call it "OD" as it's probably too hard to come up with a better description.

The "OD" is actuating the lock-up clutch on the torque converter, bypassing the torque converter itself so that drive is direct through the gearbox. That tends to lower engine RPM and as there's no longer any "slip" and energy loss from the torque converter hydraulic turbine drive, improves fuel efficiency. Cars like that are usually as economical as manuals at cruise on the open road, but use more fuel around town - as the "OD" usually only engages when the car is in top gear. There's usually a temperature control on the transmission computer, so that "OD" won't engage until the car is up to temperature, so on short runs and if the car isn't getting up to correct operating temperature (ie from stuck-open thermostat) then the car will use more fuel.

Why jump straight to the output of the diff? The output of the trans feeds the input of the diff.

OD is top gear. OD off will also switch off torque converter lock up. Switching OD off produces an immediate increase in rpm ie a gear change down. The lockup clutch cuts the losses when the torque converter is already "coupled hydraulically".

Fred99

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#1686543 12-Dec-2016 13:50

Bung:
Fred99: That "OD" on most older autos isn't actually a separate gear-ratio (and as they're FWD with transaxle, the "output" shaft is the axles, so the old terminology is even more redundant as the output rotation after the diff is always lower than than the engine RPM). They just call it "OD" as it's probably too hard to come up with a better description.

The "OD" is actuating the lock-up clutch on the torque converter, bypassing the torque converter itself so that drive is direct through the gearbox. That tends to lower engine RPM and as there's no longer any "slip" and energy loss from the torque converter hydraulic turbine drive, improves fuel efficiency. Cars like that are usually as economical as manuals at cruise on the open road, but use more fuel around town - as the "OD" usually only engages when the car is in top gear. There's usually a temperature control on the transmission computer, so that "OD" won't engage until the car is up to temperature, so on short runs and if the car isn't getting up to correct operating temperature (ie from stuck-open thermostat) then the car will use more fuel.

Why jump straight to the output of the diff? The output of the trans feeds the input of the diff.

OD is top gear. OD off will also switch off torque converter lock up. Switching OD off produces an immediate increase in rpm ie a gear change down. The lockup clutch cuts the losses when the torque converter is already "coupled hydraulically".

Switching OD off causes that increase in RPM because you've immediately only got hydraulic coupling complete with inherent inefficiencies / slip.

Sure there's an output from the trans before it goes to the diff, but it's all in one FWD transaxle unit whether that shaft is turning slower or faster than the input is kind of irrelevant, final drive ratio through the diff and size of the wheels determines RPM at xx km/h, it made more sense technically to use the term when "OD" was a over-geared unit separate from the main gearbox back in the olden days. An "extra" you'd pay some pounds for on a jaguar etc.

I don't think we're arguing about anything here are we? I just tend to think that "Overdrive" is/was used as the term for what they did with automatics, 'cause even though it was almost meaningless relative to the origins of the term, they could print "OD" on the button, people who didn't know what a torque converter is kind of knew what the effect was.

TeaLeaf

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#1686549 12-Dec-2016 14:23

Is the tiptronic in say the Demio a kind of combination of torque and something else? They are still less costly to fix than a DMG?

Wow the space in the old shape Demio, its like a Tardus.

jonathan18

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#1686559 12-Dec-2016 14:45

TeaLeaf:

Wow the space in the old shape Demio, its like a Tardus.

And even less attractive than one... In my eyes, the older Demios are some of the uglier shopping carts on the road at the moment.

Have you had a good look at the Jazz? It's a more stylish and enjoyable drive than the Demio, and has the impressive magic seats layout which makes it a terrific car for moving stuff. And as previously mentioned probably the biggest boot in its class (still, I'd not use it for your long trip! But as so many people have already said, you'd be better off renting a car for that purpose.) I'm not at all embarrassed when driving my wife's Jazz, whereas I wouldn't touch a Demio on looks alone (yes, for me looks of what I drive are important...).

Bung

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#1686567 12-Dec-2016 15:19

Fred99:

Switching OD off causes that increase in RPM because you've immediately only got hydraulic coupling complete with inherent inefficiencies / slip.

Sure there's an output from the trans before it goes to the diff, but it's all in one FWD transaxle unit whether that shaft is turning slower or faster than the input is kind of irrelevant, final drive ratio through the diff and size of the wheels determines RPM at xx km/h, it made more sense technically to use the term when "OD" was a over-geared unit separate from the main gearbox back in the olden days. An "extra" you'd pay some pounds for on a jaguar etc.

I don't think we're arguing about anything here are we? I just tend to think that "Overdrive" is/was used as the term for what they did with automatics, 'cause even though it was almost meaningless relative to the origins of the term, they could print "OD" on the button, people who didn't know what a torque converter is kind of knew what the effect was.

I think we are arguing. As far as the OD switch is concerned on an auto it locks out the top gear. Even though 4th in my trans is 1:1 it is still described as OD. If I am cruising at say 80km/h there may be inefficiencies in the torque converter but there won't be much slip. If I switch OD off I'll be in 3rd. Torque converter lock up clutches are more recent than OD switches

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