Which Large Wagon / SUV (below $20k)

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flynkiwi

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#1941813 18-Jan-2018 09:09

+1 for the Outlander. I think they made improvements with the seats and suspension. we have the 2010 model (the one with the square nose) that we have owned for 5 years. We got it for the same reason with having a newborn (who is now 5) and its probably one of the best cars we have owned. We use it for long trips and have recently added a tow bar to tow the boat we now have. We have had no mechanical issues with it.

My car I use around town and hope to sell and buy a Nissan Leaf this year sometime.

currently seem to be on trademe for about $15k

flynkiwi

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#1941814 18-Jan-2018 09:09

My car I use around town and hope to sell and buy a Nissan Leaf this year sometime.

currently seem to be on trademe for about $15k

trig42

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#1941819 18-Jan-2018 09:19

The 6th and 7th seats in the Outlanders are pretty horrible, but you wouldn't be using them too often anyway (the boot space will be more valuable). They are a pretty good bus for the money IMO.

Subaru - will be too small I think - especially if you add another child to your tribe.

I know someone else going through the same issue at the moment. They have two children (4yrs and 18mo). They bough a Suzuki Grand Vitara when child no.2 came along, and they are finding that just a little small now, so are looking at a Highlander, a Hyundai or a Kia. Not sure which way they are going, but I think the Highlander may be winning on size alone.

Scott3

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#1941850 18-Jan-2018 09:33

Batman:

alliao: I’ve just went through the same mentality now got myself an engine I love with a brand wife approve. Though slightly above 20k for a 2011 Volvo XC90 V8. Yamaha engine and aisin transmission.

Just googled it and WOW. I want one! Does it break?

There is a 2007 XC90 with that engine on trademe for $13k (not sure what transmission)

They sure look like a very comfortable way to travel on the open road.

Feedback on Australian product review is mixed, but far better than the jeep.

https://www.productreview.com.au/p/volvo-xc90-2003-present.html

There seem to be some issues with that engine and breaking timing chains, and something to do with the balancer shaft. That said, it seems to be one of the more reliable engines in these cars.

kryptonjohn:

I think the ASX has a lot more boot than a Corolla hatch. We fit 4 dudes and 4 sets of golf clubs in with ease. With 1 baby you can also split the rear seat with 70% down flat. I recon it's worth taking a look at one.

I would be scared of buying an older or more complex car as you are more likely to be spending money on it. The Lexus is reliable but you will have to fill it after driving to the dairy and back. The Mitzis have long warranties.(5/10 year).

Current Gen Corolla has a 360L boot. (not sure what my E140 corolla has).

ASX has 393L, so only 10% bigger than the current gen corolla.

Also baby capsule size means in both the corolla, and in an Amarok ute, that the passenger seat is barely usable is it is put in the back left. Having it in the center poking between the seats is the only way we are still driving the corolla. ASX has a short wheelbase, so likely tight back seat space too. Also the beaked tow rating

Regarding the Lx470, it has 141L of petrol capacity split across two tanks, so the range is going to be 900Km or so. On the other hand, I would be looking at $300 odd to fill the thing up. (for some reason, despite the weak engine, lexus recommends premium fuel for it too.)

I understand the risk of owning older cars, but it does seem to still be the best way to reduce total cost of ownership. Hydraulic suspension on the Lx470 does worry me a little.

Item:

I have rented Highlanders a number of times for decent periods accross a few years worth of revisions and I have always thought they fulfilled their brief brilliantly.

The later ones especially handle much better than older models, they have enough power, they are comfortable, acres of practical space, credible off-road/snow/wet performance and in theory, should be as reliable and hold value like any other Toyota.

For the purposes you want, I would certainly put this at the top of your list to test.

IMHO the Outbacks are great cars but woefully underpowered in 4-cylinder form as mentioned above
I have driven one Outlander and hated it - just a joyless, turgid experience all round, though granted it was one of the older models - it may be better now. That said, I have never driven a Mitsubishi that I liked!
I didn't see it on the list, but just in case it comes up: Stay well away from the Holden Captiva - rented one recently and it was junk.
Jeeps are a real roll of the dice in terms of reliabilty and running costs, but the Grand Cherokees are a nice SUV with genuine off-road cred if you get a good one...
For Wagons:

Avensis sold, safe choice but Zzzzz
BMW 5 or 3s are nice, comfy, good to drive, practical but do your research with regards to engines, models, known issues and history - BMWs in general always top any survey of "Highest cost of ownership"
E-Class or C-Class Merc. See "BMW"
The Holden SV6 is Okish - not spent much time in it. Can get a bit tail-happy in the wet...or maybe that was just my driving.
A lot of nice options in the Volvo world XC90, XC60, V60 etc etc but same applies here as to the BMW with regards caution...
Other thoughts:

Subaru Forester XT? Bit basic inside, but nice blend of SUV practictality and safety with more car like handling and decent poke.

Highlander seems like a good choice for my needs. 200kW engine, and heaps of space, and great owner feedback.

Regarding jeep, productreview.com.au scared me. Seem there is a reason you can buy these very cheap, compared to Prado's etc. On the other hand, how bad can it be? - I would go for the one with the Medicares diesel engine that has a good reputation.

Leaning towards the SUV (or outback) route now.

Getting scared of euros.

Regarding the Subaru Forrester, I think I perfer the outback for its greater back seat room, and the availability of the 3.6L (91 octane drinking) engine. Buying a highly stressed turbo seems higher risk at the mileage of vehicles I am looking at. Now that I have a child, I would rather have comfort than great handling.

Item:

Probably a really bad idea in terms of running costs, reliability and risk, but if you wanted something interesting I have always had a soft spot for the Passat R36 Wagon.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/volkswagen/auction-1451409525.htm?rsqid=9aaebd8c428d483ca5b6b5ebb328c612

Came very close to buying one in Dubai, but change of plans and job put pay to that!

Would be fun, but I am quite scared to the reliability of older DSG gearboxes. Regarding performance, I just want something that dosn't suck 200kW would be plenty for me, so that one would be overkill.

maoriboy

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#1941862 18-Jan-2018 09:55

I would +1 for the Mitsubishi Outlander, especially the V6 version. I've got the 2010 VR and am very happy with our decision. Massive boot area and with the seats folded down can fit a few pallets in the back. Driven the 2l version and was not impressed with the lack of grunt but the V6 is great. No problems with towing, has on-demand 4WD and been more reliable than anything I've owned previously. Fuel economy around town is average (11l/100km) but cruises nicely on longer trips (averaging 8l/100k on recent trip to Wellington). I've got 2 rather lanky kids and there is heaps of room in the back for them to stretch their legs and headroom. Carseats would not be an issue at all. Went for a 5 seater variety as it meant a bit of underfloor storage in the back and those +2 seats were nothing more than metal frames with cargo type netting and seat belts....nah no thanks.

Something like this on Trademe that fits within your budget...or pretty close to it.

2011 Outlander VR

If you are in/near Palmy North, feel free to hit me up if you wanted to take for a spin. Alternatively will be in Wellington on Saturday morning until about 11:30ish if you want to meet up?

Scott3

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#1941867 18-Jan-2018 10:04

trig42:

The 6th and 7th seats in the Outlanders are pretty horrible, but you wouldn't be using them too often anyway (the boot space will be more valuable). They are a pretty good bus for the money IMO.

Subaru - will be too small I think - especially if you add another child to your tribe.

I know someone else going through the same issue at the moment. They have two children (4yrs and 18mo). They bough a Suzuki Grand Vitara when child no.2 came along, and they are finding that just a little small now, so are looking at a Highlander, a Hyundai or a Kia. Not sure which way they are going, but I think the Highlander may be winning on size alone.

No need for 3rd row seats. (the ones in the previous generation out lander look especially bad, even compared to other similar SUVS). That said, if they are something adults can fit in for short stretches, they might come in handy

The legacy wagon and outback have pretty decent cargo space, I would say similar to the outlander, just not as deep.

Hyundai Santa Fe (the short wheelbase version we get in NZ anyway) is heaps smaller than the Highlander (especially the current one), but the kia sorento is nearly as big. I have been inside a kia Carnival before, and it is a awesome car, and really well specified. The Hyundai and kia's are outside by budget in the generation where I like the styling. Best thing they have going for them is their awesome R series diesel engine.

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Scott3

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#1941875 18-Jan-2018 10:17

maoriboy:

I would +1 for the Mitsubishi Outlander, especially the V6 version. I've got the 2010 VR and am very happy with our decision. Massive boot area and with the seats folded down can fit a few pallets in the back. Driven the 2l version and was not impressed with the lack of grunt but the V6 is great. No problems with towing, has on-demand 4WD and been more reliable than anything I've owned previously. Fuel economy around town is average (11l/100km) but cruises nicely on longer trips (averaging 8l/100k on recent trip to Wellington). I've got 2 rather lanky kids and there is heaps of room in the back for them to stretch their legs and headroom. Carseats would not be an issue at all. Went for a 5 seater variety as it meant a bit of underfloor storage in the back and those +2 seats were nothing more than metal frames with cargo type netting and seat belts....nah no thanks.

Something like this on Trademe that fits within your budget...or pretty close to it.

2011 Outlander VR

If you are in/near Palmy North, feel free to hit me up if you wanted to take for a spin. Alternatively will be in Wellington on Saturday morning until about 11:30ish if you want to meet up?

I am in Auckland, but thanks for the offer anyway. Other than the engine, and exterior face-lift it looks largely the same as my dads which I have spent many hours in.

The reasons you list are basically why we brought it. Lots of interior and cargo room, with reasonable fuel consumption (we were doing heaps of highway kilometers at time). All while being smaller and cheaper then the large (v6 / diesel) suv's.

I probiably want something different from my dad, purely for the sake of having something different.

lxsw20

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#1941877 18-Jan-2018 10:19

Toyota Vanguard? Pretty much a Rav4, except you can get with a V6, leather and 7 seats.

Geektastic

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#1941879 18-Jan-2018 10:29

I'd pick a Volvo XC90 or a Mercedes/BMW station wagon. If you can find a 5 series Touring that would be a very fine car.

alliao

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#1943212 19-Jan-2018 00:09

Scott3:

There is a 2007 XC90 with that engine on trademe for $13k (not sure what transmission)

They sure look like a very comfortable way to travel on the open road.

Feedback on Australian product review is mixed, but far better than the jeep.

https://www.productreview.com.au/p/volvo-xc90-2003-present.html

There seem to be some issues with that engine and breaking timing chains, and something to do with the balancer shaft. That said, it seems to be one of the more reliable engines in these cars.

There's a 3.2L (T6) version and a 4.4L V8 version, the counter balance shaft issue only affects v8 prior to 2006. The breaking timing chains I'm unaware of, possibly T6. The kicker is mileage wise, 3.2L is almost identical to 4.4L that's why I went with the V8. The reliability of Volvo is rather average, Jeep on the other hand is in the Fiat territory.

I just look at JD Powers survey around 5 yrs after the car... since that's when most warranties run dry.

http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-%28VDS%29-by-Make/1881ENG

But V8 seems to be quite a robust engine, only worry being worn out suspension and AWD related errors, but i figured those are just wear and tear item, once you paid to get it fixed you still have a really nice ride so it's not exactly planned obsolescence type of crap like when BMW hits 300k the computer just give up counting and constantly warn you to get oil changed... that'd irk me to no end

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/volvo/auction-1395906024.htm?rsqid=849ed307be3549af91cbdbfe968f6601

That one's on the market for at least a year, at the same price point too quite odd

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/volvo/auction-1516144229.htm?rsqid=849ed307be3549af91cbdbfe968f6601

this one just came on the market in the last week, the engine bay's too clean but if it sounds ok drives ok might be fine? But then it's up to 120k so might need a refresh of suspension parts soon.

Batman

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#1943229 19-Jan-2018 06:59

nakedmolerat:

@Scott3 Do yourself a favor and get a DEMO outlander 7 seater. Far better than getting old car.

It is also fun to drive.

If you can find an Outlander Demo for 20k then absolutely new car is better than old car hands down!

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Senecio

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#1943244 19-Jan-2018 08:30

alliao:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/volvo/auction-1516144229.htm?rsqid=849ed307be3549af91cbdbfe968f6601

this one just came on the market in the last week, the engine bay's too clean but if it sounds ok drives ok might be fine? But then it's up to 120k so might need a refresh of suspension parts soon.

Been a long time since I've seen an horizontally mounted V8. Wow that looks weird!

Mattmannz

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#1943251 19-Jan-2018 08:50

I am in the same situation , new baby about to arrive and need a more practical car. Just sold my 5 series and will get a 2008/9ish BMW X3. These are around the 12-20k mark depending on spec etc.

dolsen

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#1943268 19-Jan-2018 09:35

lxsw20:

Toyota Vanguard? Pretty much a Rav4, except you can get with a V6, leather and 7 seats.

I think this would be also worth looking at. The V6 model has the same 200+KW engine as used in the highlander, however, it's in a slightly smaller body and has an on demand 4wd system. Internally, it seems bigger than the outlander (have only been in the outlander a few times but it felt cramped compared with the vanguard).

I imported a 2007 one to replace a 2011 Holden commodore sportswagon. Much more power, better visibility and only slightly more fuel use than the commodore (about 11-12l / 100km, mostly city driving). 2 Ton towing ability with the correct towbar.

Scott3

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#2015930 14-May-2018 16:34

6 months after I made this thread, I have brought a car.

I ended up with a mid 2000's Lexus RX400h. Cost $13,500 and I am pretty happy with the outcome.

Original plan was to replace our current hatchback with an electric one (as a daily driver), and to get a very large SUV / wagon for use only on holidays, or when my wife and I went different places. Ultimately we decided that this results in a bit much money being tied up in cars, as such we brought the SUV to be our daily driver. Being our daily driver it needed to be small enough for daily parking, and not too expensive to run in terms of fuel. Will hold onto our current hatchback for a while and see how much it gets used.

Interior & boot space is a bit less than what I would have ideally liked (smaller the outlander), but we really like the luxury things that come with a car that orginally sold for $99k (Memory drivers seat, leather, full power passenger seat (incl height and lumber), power tailgate, headlights that look round corners etc. We sat in a lot of cars, and the seats in the Lexus RX400h felt the nicest.

Wife approval factor is off the charts (Luxury brand).

Car has a 200kW hybrid drivetrain, and came with a 1.5tonne tow-bar. Rated fuel consumption is 8.1L/100km (or 95 RON). In the real world, I got 9.4L/100km on an intercity trip towing a very light trailer, and 8.1L/100k on the reverse trip without trailer (car quite full of stuff both ways). Seems to to about the same in city traffic. This means it will be cheaper to run than my hatchback in the city, and only a little more on the highway.

Handling is pretty bad though, car gets some epic torque steer...

I had the battery health checked before purchase, and although it showed signs of age, it didn't show any significant issues, or degradation inconsistent with age.

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