Another "Who's at fault" game...

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Coil

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#2074839 17-Aug-2018 13:20

tehgerbil:

Both at fault, one for not checking their blind spot and the truck driver for driving in the car park bays and having done so for clearly quite a few meters!

It can't be an 'unsafe lane change' if there is only 1 lane as clearly evident...

It is nearly impossible to merge in the space that is provided people always run it out the extra length and when you stick hard right in traffic people think your turning right as there is no turning bay for that side carpark slipway thing. Yes a car can still pass if there is someone parked on the left and someone turning right is sticking hard center line.

People improvise when our roads are designed like junk and there are more people on them that what there should be.

Batman

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#2074911 17-Aug-2018 15:09

Coil:
tehgerbil:

Both at fault, one for not checking their blind spot and the truck driver for driving in the car park bays and having done so for clearly quite a few meters!

It can't be an 'unsafe lane change' if there is only 1 lane as clearly evident...

It is nearly impossible to merge in the space that is provided people always run it out the extra length and when you stick hard right in traffic people think your turning right as there is no turning bay for that side carpark slipway thing. Yes a car can still pass if there is someone parked on the left and someone turning right is sticking hard center line.

People improvise when our roads are designed like junk and there are more people on them that what there should be.

I've driven while living in Melbourne, the world's most livable city. Their road outlays are about 10 times worse. Unsurprisingly Crashes like this happen all the time.

There was a comment about push bike in place of the truck. Well in that case the cyclist dies. Just another day on the road.

bmt

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#2074930 17-Aug-2018 16:43

mclean:

This has arisen out of the two vehicles failing to merge after passing through the earlier intersection so they ended up sharing the lane. Why didn't they merge? In my experience, when two vehicles enter a merge area together the one on the left will usually yield (I guess because the right-hand vehicle is sort of in an overtaking position). If one is behind the other the one behind will usually yield to the one ahead. But there seems to be no rule covering this.

So I wonder why the truck didn't yield at the merge point and let the car go ahead. Was he being a prick, or was there another vehicle on his right preventing it? Too many unknowns.

I'm not sure where I'd place the blame for the collision, but I think most drivers coming out of a merge situation keep pretty close track of any vehicle on their left.

Left lanes end and merge into the right lane, not the other way around, thus cars in the left lane should yield, indicate and merge, whereas cars in the right lane are not obliged to do anything.

sdav

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#2075243 18-Aug-2018 11:12

tehgerbil:

Both at fault, one for not checking their blind spot and the truck driver for driving in the car park bays and having done so for clearly quite a few meters!

It can't be an 'unsafe lane change' if there is only 1 lane as clearly evident...

Agreed. Both at fault and depending on where the damage is on the vehicles someone will be slightly more at fault than the other.... That's a single lane for some time.

mattwnz

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#2075291 18-Aug-2018 13:50

sdav:

tehgerbil:

Both at fault, one for not checking their blind spot and the truck driver for driving in the car park bays and having done so for clearly quite a few meters!

It can't be an 'unsafe lane change' if there is only 1 lane as clearly evident...

Agreed. Both at fault and depending on where the damage is on the vehicles someone will be slightly more at fault than the other.... That's a single lane for some time.

Is it a single lane, or an unmarked road? But having a parking bay without any markings is weird. Although I would have to see what happened and the relative positions to understand it more. There are surely standards on road markings that need to be followed. Wellington has some roads like this, although the parking pay lane is usually marked, and becomes a clearway at peak times. But it isn't a great way of doing it either, as it just shows the roads were not designed for the traffic demand.

richms

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#2075294 18-Aug-2018 14:27

IMO its the truck at fault for undertaking.

Richard rich.ms

surfisup1000

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#2075344 18-Aug-2018 15:41

There are 2 sides to this, the legal side, and the defensive driving view.

From a strictly legal view, I think your friend is in the right and the truck in the wrong.

Your friend is in the driving lane , the truck is not. By not merging earlier the truck has effectively driven itself into a 'park'. Because the truck is technically 'parked', it should be stationary, signalling right blinker, giving way to traffic on the right and waiting for a safe time to re-enter the flow of traffic . But, the truck just kept going like it had never left the flow of traffic and collided with your friend who was correctly avoiding the right turning car just ahead.

From a defensive driving (or practical) perspective, I think both drivers are in the wrong. No roads are perfect and there should be increased vigilance in heavy traffic and imperfect road design.

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UHD

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#2075367 18-Aug-2018 16:59

It is pretty clear from the Google street view that the lane is wide enough for a vehicle to park and two vehicles to drive next to one another even though it is technically a single lane.

It looks as though it is relatively common for right turning vehicles to be undertaken as a result of them having to turn across a busy lane without a turning bay. It is almost as if that half of the lane becomes a de facto turning bay when the road is busy.

The distance from where the two lanes merge to where your workmate's car was is a pretty long distance; at least two thirds of a block.

There is no good reason for your workmate and the truck to be driving side by side that far from a merge point.

Either one of two things has occurred:

1) Your workmate didn't want to merge behind the truck so sped past, realised there was a right turning vehicle ahead and tried a dangerous late merge causing an accident.

2) For some inexplicable reason your workmate managed to accelerate as slowly as the truck from the intersection and maintained the same speed as the truck for two thirds of a block despite seeing a car wanting to make a right turn ahead and then merged late causing an accident.

There isn't really any other likely explanation for why your workmate and a truck were driving side by side for so long other than option 1 in my opinion. Given my driving experience on the road this is also more likely as I see this all the time with merge points - Napier is awful for this.

Both drivers could have driven more defensively but I'd side with the truck driver on this.

Batman

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#2075478 18-Aug-2018 18:17

Not sure why there's even an argument. It's very easy. Who deviated from the their driving line, caused the crash.

surfisup1000

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#2075479 18-Aug-2018 18:21

Batman: Not sure why there's even an argument. It's very easy. Who deviated from the their driving line, caused the crash.

'It's very easy' depends on your natural bias and understanding of the law.

I don't think it is easy at all, this is one of those borderline scenarios where multiple laws are at play and it depends on which law trumps which.

bmt

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#2075517 18-Aug-2018 22:10

Batman: Not sure why there's even an argument. It's very easy. Who deviated from the their driving line, caused the crash.

Yeah not really, if the truck was in the left lane then as I posted above they must merge, therefore they are at fault. Even if the car deviated significantly and the truck was driving straight, the car had right of way .

mattwnz

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#2075583 19-Aug-2018 00:11

Pays to get a car with blind spot monitoring. As soon as they signaled left, the car would have warned them that someone was on the left, and to be aware that moving to the left could cause an impact.

Mark

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#2075601 19-Aug-2018 08:36

mattwnz:

As soon as they signaled left,

Don't you mean "If they signaled left" ? :-)

Batman

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#2075607 19-Aug-2018 09:48

bmt:
Batman: Not sure why there's even an argument. It's very easy. Who deviated from the their driving line, caused the crash.

Yeah not really, if the truck was in the left lane then as I posted above they must merge, therefore they are at fault. Even if the car deviated significantly and the truck was driving straight, the car had right of way .

Maybe i don't follow what happened but my impression was that the truck was trying to go around two cars on the right, and one of the two cars on the right suddenly swerved to the left and a collision occurred.

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