Is there any logical reason our Councils are afraid of red light camears?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Is there any logical reason our Councils are afraid of red light camears?

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3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2535460 5-Aug-2020 20:09

for the lead driver... depends, if they've "entered" the intersection.

https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/resources/turning-right-traffic-lights/

as per the quoted rules (I didn't check their source) provided the intended intersection is clear you are able to "enter" the intersection.

Atleast we don't have to deal with doing hook turns with trams like in Melbourne.

This is correct. The offence is "entering" an intersection on a red light, if it's green when you entered (and your path was not blocked by stationary traffic) then you are perfectly entitled to complete the turn even if the light has tuned red.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Blurtie

468 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2535468 5-Aug-2020 20:17

boosacnoodle:
This is absolutely bollocks. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to endanger other motorists and pedestrians. If you are doing this - you are part of the problem. Intersections with a red right turn arrow are design so that less traffic will flow through them. Take another route.

Hey, am just stating what I've noticed based on being a relatively newcomer to the city.

If what you're saying about red right turn arrows is true, then it seems like you're not supposed to do right turns off Colombo street.. Main intersection I'm referring to being colombo/brougham (I walk past this every day to go to work).. Surely if they didn't want you to turn right off in an intersection they'd put up a no right turn sign..

tdgeek

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#2535472 5-Aug-2020 20:28

hio77:

Next time auckland wants to increase their rates, they should just stick a bunch of these along K road, Queen street and Victoria street. will make bank off even the buses...

if only that was actually true anyway..

Id heard K Rd was the red light district!

sidefx

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#2535528 6-Aug-2020 07:42

afe66: There are also no votes in it.

Our childish public belief is after all that speed tickits are revenue gathering not an incentive to follow the laws.

Red light cameras will invoke a similar response in a loud minority whom media will give too much attention to.

Completely agree with this, I'm not sure how true it is though? I feel the same (red light and speed cameras are good) and know plenty of other people who feel the same. I suspect there is a vocal minority that feel this way and like to say it as loudly as possible to anyone who will listen (and occasionally this includes the media) but most people seem more pragmatic about that sort of thing...

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
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trig42

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#2535549 6-Aug-2020 08:31

Blurtie:
boosacnoodle:

This is absolutely bollocks. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to endanger other motorists and pedestrians. If you are doing this - you are part of the problem. Intersections with a red right turn arrow are design so that less traffic will flow through them. Take another route.

Hey, am just stating what I've noticed based on being a relatively newcomer to the city.

If what you're saying about red right turn arrows is true, then it seems like you're not supposed to do right turns off Colombo street.. Main intersection I'm referring to being colombo/brougham (I walk past this every day to go to work).. Surely if they didn't want you to turn right off in an intersection they'd put up a no right turn sign..

I agree with @Blurtie here. I was in Christchurch last week. In my limited driving in and around the Riccarton area I noticed that it is nearly impossible to turn right off some of the 'main' roads without a right turn arrow. The only way to do it (and this was after waiting a couple of phases) was to sit in the middle of the intersection and turn right on the red. It wouldn't be so bad if the drivers going straight through stopped on the amber, but they don't. They run the reds on straight through traffic too.

I guess, if there's no enforcement, there's no reason for a lot of them to obey the rules.

I thought Auckland was bad for red light runners. Christchurch, in my limited experience, is far worse and more dangerous (in Auckland most busy intersections do at least have turning arrows).

sidefx

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#2535551 6-Aug-2020 08:39

trig42:

in Auckland most busy intersections do at least have turning arrows.

I hate them, at least on our road - I live in a small side street off a main road and they put in lights a couple of years ago, with arrow lights. Not really sure why because there didn't seem to be much problems with this intersection; there are lights both up and down the road from it which created plenty of gaps in traffic to turn out or into our street. But for whatever reason they decided they needed lights. For a while I often had to sit through extremely looooong red right arrows with zero traffic coming the other way, then a phase in both other directions (they are separate, also a bit weird) before getting another right green.

They have fortunately recently updated it to turn off the red right arrow for some bits of the phase, but it's still enough to be annoying, and lots of people don't seem to understand that when there's not a red or green arrow you just go by the main light with standard give way rules...

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

MikeAqua

7779 posts

Uber Geek

#2535553 6-Aug-2020 08:41

trig42:

I thought Auckland was bad for red light runners. Christchurch, in my limited experience, is far worse and more dangerous (in Auckland most busy intersections do at least have turning arrows).

If red light running it was an Olympic event and it was actually; possible to hold the Olympics) then ChCh would take out all the Gold medals. It's been like that for at least 25 years (based on my experiences driving there).

Straight traffic continues to enter intersections until the lights have actually turned red.

Mike

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MikeB4

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#2535621 6-Aug-2020 10:29

My experience in the Capital and Hutt City is buses will be the hardest hit which is probably why they are reluctant.

decibel

315 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2535633 6-Aug-2020 10:49

sidefx:

afe66: There are also no votes in it.

Our childish public belief is after all that speed tickits are revenue gathering not an incentive to follow the laws.

Red light cameras will invoke a similar response in a loud minority whom media will give too much attention to.

Completely agree with this, I'm not sure how true it is though? I feel the same (red light and speed cameras are good) and know plenty of other people who feel the same. I suspect there is a vocal minority that feel this way and like to say it as loudly as possible to anyone who will listen (and occasionally this includes the media) but most people seem more pragmatic about that sort of thing...

This is why the fines from the cameras go to the Consolidated Fund and not the Police or the City Council.

It allows them to say "we aren't doing it for the revenue!"

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2535793 6-Aug-2020 13:58

This is every bodies fault. The voting public is not holding politicians to account for this, so the politicians are not resourcing or holding the police to account for enforcing the law and the law goes unenforced. In practical terms, an unenforced law is a redundant law. So the road code is redundant through lack of enforcement and the Auckland road toll is dramatic evidence of the consequences.

You can drive as recklessly as you like in Auckland and you have to be very unlucky to receive a ticket.

Auckland City Councils response to unenforced road code is the drastically reduce speed limits. Now that traffic is more miserable than ever, but law abiding drivers have more time to take evasive action and the inevitable impacts are lower energy.

In a vicious self reinforcing cycle, A.T. is also installing traffic calming measures, such as disruptive/onerous phasing of traffic lights and removal of reactive & adaptive phasing which undermines peoples confidence in traffic signals and makes it easier for more and more normal people to justify running red lights to their consciences.

FineWine

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Nurse (R)

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#2535828 6-Aug-2020 15:07

wellygary:

In short, because there is nothing in for the council...

The Council has to pay to install the cameras, they then have to pay the police to wade through the data and write the tickets, and then the government gets the fine money....

I agree that this is not fair. Council install = Council get the revenue = only fair. Those that say "revenue raising", then don't break the law and it should not worry or concern you!

I sympathise with all the other cities in this country and add in Tauranga and the Mount. Had one this morning at the Tauranga Hospital lights. I had stopped quite safely on a just turned Yellow in left lane on a wet road. Car next to me, right lane, went through on a half yellow/half red and then, WOW, 2 car lengths back from that car the next car went through a solid red with the green just turned from the other direction. Idiot.

Sydney is full of red light, T-lane and Bus lane camera's with automatic ticket issuance. For intersections a camera is immediately activated if the vehicles tires go over the 'stop' line, which is the first unbroken white line at the front of the intersection. Also the motorways have point to point average speed camera's which were initially put in to catch the truckies. The latest are 'Phone usage' camera's. They raise millions each year which goes into the general purse.

And then they have this one in Sydney:

Sign showing 'LEFT TURN ON RED PERMITTED AFTER STOPPING' This sign allows you to turn left on a red light after stopping. When turning left you must give way to all traffic approaching from the right.

Left turn on red light is only permitted at intersections where the sign has been placed.

That sign does speed up the flow and turns down the anger especially in off peak times.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

afe66

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#2535896 6-Aug-2020 17:10

This is NZ.

Turning on left on red would result in paedestrians getting hit by drivers who will only have a minimal look. ie look at how crap we are at stopping at stop signs.

1101

3122 posts

Uber Geek

#2537758 10-Aug-2020 11:12

afe66:

This is NZ.

Turning on left on red would result in paedestrians getting hit by drivers who will only have a minimal look. ie look at how crap we are at stopping at stop signs.

This was actually trialed in Auckland (turn left on red).
NZ drivers , being too stupid/inattentive , couldnt cope with this, so the trial was abandoned .

timbosan

2159 posts

Uber Geek

#2537769 10-Aug-2020 11:28

1101:

afe66:

This is NZ.

Turning on left on red would result in paedestrians getting hit by drivers who will only have a minimal look. ie look at how crap we are at stopping at stop signs.

This was actually trialed in Auckland (turn left on red).
NZ drivers , being too stupid/inattentive , couldnt cope with this, so the trial was abandoned .

@1101 Do you have a link for this? I am very keen to read more about it and the outcomes.

Kyanar

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#2537848 10-Aug-2020 13:05

afe66:

This is NZ.

Turning on left on red would result in paedestrians getting hit by drivers who will only have a minimal look. ie look at how crap we are at stopping at stop signs.

Except that Austroads standards only permit these signs being installed on intersections with less than 50 pedestrians per hour, with particular specified visibility, where there are not significant elderly or children crossing, where the speed limit is 60km/hr or less, where there is only one lane turning left, where there is no more than two cars per minute turning left (that's a big one), where there is no U-turn permitted, where the opposing direction does not have a green turn arrow, and a number of other criteria. Given road designs in Auckland as an example, very few intersections would likely be permitted under the Austroads standard (which NZTA would almost certainly adopt, given they are an Austroads member - it is rare for NZ and Australia to deviate on a road design or standard though the rules themselves are a mess).

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