Car suggestions for towing boats

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mudguard

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#2612524 29-Nov-2020 08:42

Scott3:
Batman:

frankly i'm surprised the fwd 380 is able to retrieve that boat up a slippery boat ramp.

For some reason the slime that seems common on NZ boat ramps doesn't seem to effect cars too much. Have had no issue pulling boats out of ramps so slippery that I needed to hold onto the car to avoid falling over when walking between the drivers door and the trailer.

Isn't that what the boat motor is for? A helping hand? It was easy with a jet boat. Required a bit more care with an outboard!!

But if the towing is infrequent I'd get a car you want/need for the 99% of its use and. Then either hire one, but as others have pointed out the weight is within the realms of most cars anyway.
Seems a kiwi tradition to buy a big car for the annual summer holiday when most of the time something smaller would do. It seems my Corolla won't tow much, 450kg unbraked and 1300kg braked. Still mine is the only one I've seen with a tow bar. And it's a 2" hitch rack of all things.

Loismustdye

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#2612526 29-Nov-2020 08:51

My parents did most Of their towing with a Number of Hyundai sante fe for their boatS, but they upgraded the boat to a bigger one and had to get a 3.5 tonne tower, and got a new rexton, Both vehicles towed with no problems, with the sante fe being the slightly nicer general drive.

Loismustdye

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#2612527 29-Nov-2020 09:04

Another thing to consider is how long you will keep the vehicle, Dad had numerous sante fes as work vehicles and these were used daily, and every 2nd weekend to the Bach in Taupo from Hawkes bay to tow the boat. Even after 4-5 years of hard work, daily use, boat towing and high kms (high 200,000s over each refresh) the bodies were tight with no rattles/squeaks/noises from the engine/chassis/body. He was so impressed he bought a new 2015 as personal vehicle.

incidentally his work moved from the sante fes to new RAV4s, which although nice and modern, didn’t tow anywhere near as nice but were far more cheaply built and If put through similar use As the sant fes would no doubt likely fall apart.

If It was me buying I’d be getting an older Sante fe/Kia Sorrento as these would fit under the $ threshold, and last a lot longer than the cheaply made RAV4s and the like. (FWIW we bought dads personal 2015 sante fe off them when he Upgraded the boat, no towing for us but drives smoothly and very well when used just as a method from getting a to b).

Batman

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#2612547 29-Nov-2020 09:49

Scott3:
Batman:

frankly i'm surprised the fwd 380 is able to retrieve that boat up a slippery boat ramp.

For some reason the slime that seems common on NZ boat ramps doesn't seem to effect cars too much. Have had no issue pulling boats out of ramps so slippery that I needed to hold onto the car to avoid falling over when walking between the drivers door and the trailer.

In a FWD?

Scott3

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#2612962 30-Nov-2020 00:49

Handle9:

A punt based on the likely loads. If you are towing a boat occasionally you are possibly going on holiday with the car and boat full of crap.

Towing is really badly understood and if you are over GCM and have an accident your insurance company is likely going to be interested. The manufacturer will definitely like a chat if you break something on the drive train over GCM.

It's hardly false advertising as you can definitely tow 1500kg with a RAV4, the question is whether you can tow 1500kg in the likely use case.

In this case, your punt was badly wrong.

As it happens I saw a friend with a Rav4 hybrid today. Below is a photo of the relevant page for the manual.

Only the AWD version of the rav4 hybrid is offered in NZ, so:

Kerb weight Min: 1695kg/1700kg/1720kg (GX / GXL / Limited) - Includes full fuel.
Kerb weight Max: 1705kg/1730kg/1745kg
GVW:2230kg
GCW: 3730kg
Max trailer weight: 1500kg (or 750kg without breaks)
Max tongue load: 150kg

Note that GCW is 1500kg more than GVW, so GCW is not a limiting factor in this case. Tongue load eating into payload and axle weight limits are, but nothing different from OP's current vehicle.

Not that it is relevant in this case, but few non-commercial insurance policies in NZ have a clause preventing cover if the vehicle exceeds manufacture recommended weight limits. Plenty of people have put tow-bars on Nissan leaf's (0kg tow rating), and confirmed with their insures that they are covered for towing with that vehicle.

My comment about false advertising was you de-rated the tow rating by up to 500kg for a 400kg load in the vehicle. If your punt at GCW as accurate it would mean the vehicle could never tow it's full tow rating without stripping 100kg + driver weight from the vehicle.

The GCW issue primarily impacts the thai built utes (often 3500kg towing with 6000kg GVM - doesn't leave much room for payload with Tare often over 2000kg). Most other vehicle classes have tow ratings and GCW ratings that don't significantly clash.

Scott3

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#2612963 30-Nov-2020 00:58

Batman:
Scott3:

For some reason the slime that seems common on NZ boat ramps doesn't seem to effect cars too much. Have had no issue pulling boats out of ramps so slippery that I needed to hold onto the car to avoid falling over when walking between the drivers door and the trailer.

In a FWD?

Yes. Boat was a little smaller than OP's, but tow vehicle was too (2.0L).

Have retrieved 1.5T boats with a 1.8L corolla too (configuration was not used on road). Pushing the limits, but got the job done.

Might be different if a ramp was abnormally steep, but in my experience cars seem heavy enough not to slip on boat ramp slime, and is it just like any other wet surface.

Of course game changes if you are launching from a dirt ramp. I prefer RWD, but they are getting pretty rare in a lot of segments these days.

If OP wanted a RWD performance car, a 2 year old Kia Stinger is in budget, and gets a 1500kg tow rating.

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Handle9

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#2612965 30-Nov-2020 01:12

Scott3:

Not that it is relevant in this case, but few non-commercial insurance policies in NZ have a clause preventing cover if the vehicle exceeds manufacture recommended weight limits. Plenty of people have put tow-bars on Nissan leaf's (0kg tow rating), and confirmed with their insures that they are covered for towing with that vehicle.

You are incorrect about insurance. Insurance doesn't cover you if you operate the vehicle in an unsafe manner and a number of policies specifically list being overloaded as an exclusion under operating the vehicle in an unsafe manner. I took a quick look at tower, state and aa and two of the three specifically exclude cover for being overloaded, including a trailer being overloaded.

Scott3

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#2613089 30-Nov-2020 09:59

Handle9:

Scott3:

Not that it is relevant in this case, but few non-commercial insurance policies in NZ have a clause preventing cover if the vehicle exceeds manufacture recommended weight limits. Plenty of people have put tow-bars on Nissan leaf's (0kg tow rating), and confirmed with their insures that they are covered for towing with that vehicle.

You are incorrect about insurance. Insurance doesn't cover you if you operate the vehicle in an unsafe manner and a number of policies specifically list being overloaded as an exclusion under operating the vehicle in an unsafe manner. I took a quick look at tower, state and aa and two of the three specifically exclude cover for being overloaded, including a trailer being overloaded.

my apologies. I checked all the majors a few years ago, and it was only on commercially focused polices.

But you are correct AA now doesn't cover overloaded vehicles, Tower dosn't cover vehicles that are being used in an unsafe of dangerous with the example of overloading. AMI doesn't cover vehicles designed to carry goods which are overloaded.

My vehicle with a tow-bar is insured with State, so I had missed the policy changes with other insurers. State just has a catchall for unsafe or dangerous. Exceeding manufacture specifications is not in itself unsafe and dangerous, as indicated by their willingness to provide cover to nissan leaf's towing light trailers despite their 0kg tow rating.

Of course, for somebody buying a $50k vehicle for the purpose of towing, might as we get one appropriately rated, and for OP there is quote a selection of vehicles that will tow their relatively modest sized boat.

Scott3

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#2613122 30-Nov-2020 10:43

mudguard:

Isn't that what the boat motor is for? A helping hand? It was easy with a jet boat. Required a bit more care with an outboard!!

But if the towing is infrequent I'd get a car you want/need for the 99% of its use and. Then either hire one, but as others have pointed out the weight is within the realms of most cars anyway.
Seems a kiwi tradition to buy a big car for the annual summer holiday when most of the time something smaller would do. It seems my Corolla won't tow much, 450kg unbraked and 1300kg braked. Still mine is the only one I've seen with a tow bar. And it's a 2" hitch rack of all things.

My (now sold) 2006 hatchback corolla had the same rating. That's a very respectable (braked) rating for the size of the vehicle. More than the current Camry at 1200kg for the non hybrid, and only 200kg less than the Rav4.

I never towed anything that heavy with my corolla, and would recommend being quite careful if you do. That is a lot of weight behind a relatively light vehicle. Also note that my corolla manual said not to tow in top gear (manual) or overdrive (auto) - something to keep in mind to avoid transmission damage.

With regards to renting for infrequent towing, there are a few issue's.

The main one is that rental cars with towbars are somewhat niche. As a general rule rental vehicles from the big brands are not fitted with towbars. There are some limited exemption's like thrifty which has a utility with canopy and tow bar in their fleet, however despite sercing several dates and locations it was allays marked as sold out. This means that specialist companies like Metropolitan rentals, or peer to peer marketplaces (like my car your rental) are likely the go to's.

The next is convenience. Not everybody has a rental location close to home, But as an example if somebody took their boat out (or away on holiday) say 10 times a year, and the deport was a 20min drive away, and the pickup or delivery process took minutes, that's 20 hours a year spend on picking up and dropping off the rental car. Double the man-hours if you get a family member to pick you up and drop you off (many rental locations don't like you to leave your private cars on their sites).

Next is availability. Larger rental SUV's, utes etc often get sold out at the most popular times for holiday's.

Next is cost. To rent a double cab hilux from hirepool for 5 days costs $989 with insurance excess reduction. Renting it for 25 days a year would be roughly $4500. Sufficient to cover the additional running costs of a towing appropriate vehicle used instead of a smaller car as a daily driver. (not that something like a rav4 hybrid is especially expensive to run)

[edit] - In Auckland / Tauranga etc, dry-stacking is a popular option, especially for those with larger trailor style boats (especially those around the upper towing size limits). Means the owner don't need to buy a trailer, or have a ute / Landcruiser 200 or similar to tow it, or a location to park the boat. Plus it is convenient walk on, walk off boating. Obviously you would still need to own a trailer if you wanted to take the boat to the lakes for holidays etc. Not as popular for smaller trailer boats that can be towed with a normal sized car, and parked in a typical driveway or long garage.

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#2613165 30-Nov-2020 11:39

Scott3:

My (now sold) 2006 hatchback corolla had the same rating. That's a very respectable (braked) rating for the size of the vehicle. More than the current Camry at 1200kg for the non hybrid, and only 200kg less than the Rav4.

I never towed anything that heavy with my corolla, and would recommend being quite careful if you do. That is a lot of weight behind a relatively light vehicle. Also note that my corolla manual said not to tow in top gear (manual) or overdrive (auto) - something to keep in mind to avoid transmission damage.

this. you want to tow the boat, not the other way round.

PS there wasn't much a corolla couldn't do back in the day! (as long as it doesn't innolve hills and speed) i had a 2L corolla back in the day and it wouldn't go up the local SH1 hill at 100kph.

Fred99

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#2613344 30-Nov-2020 13:20

Batman:

i had a 2L corolla back in the day and it wouldn't go up the local SH1 hill at 100kph.

I had a new E70 Corolla work car back in about 1980, which IIRC was 1300cc 4 speed. It went like the clappers if you wound it up until you could hear valves bouncing (the mechanical rev-limiter), yet it proved to be indestructible. I gave it two years of constant abuse, when I left the job my ex-boss bought it for his wife and it ran trouble-free for many years and well over 300,000km.

Not to say despite good reputation that Toyota don't make lemons - they've had a few.

I'd have said avoid CVT like the plague for towing, but maybe Toyotas like new RAV4 are OK if they stand by the warranty for transmission and don't exclude anything as a wear and tear item like brake pads. The new Toyotas I've driven with CVT (incl RAV4), at least they don't feel/drive like there's rubber bands in the transmission - I didn't get the "oh something's wrong - doh it's a CVT" feeling.

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Scott3

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#2613349 30-Nov-2020 13:30

^^ regarding CVT's, should note that Toyota & Lexus hybrid don't use a frictional belt and cones like most others. I find the setup in my 200kW SUV quite nice compared to conventional auto's.

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