sbiddle:

 

driller2000:

 

I fully expect self drive cars to eventually be safer than us humans that make poor / bad decisions - and the data seems to suggest they are already getting there:

 

 

We are still many years away from full self driving cars even being close to being ready for market in anything but controlled situations. There are so many things they simply can't cope with.

 

 

 

Agree re this being WIP.

But if the data in that snip I posted is credible/comparable they are already having 1/9th the amount of crashes per km.

sbiddle:

 

Journeyman:

 

Would a whole lot of foam be better at putting out battery fires? I know some trucks have foam and can introduce an amount of it into the water they're using. But I wonder if they can just dump all the foam on a big battery fire?

 

 

 

 

Once thermal runaway has started you can't really stop it.. Basically water and more water and more water. Foam can help, but it's not a magic fix.

 

Here's the extract from the Tesla guide for emergency services

Foam is used in oils as it stops them from floating on the water leading to the well known flare up effect if you put water on an oil fire.

Apparently they are having some good results mixing vermiculite powder in to the water for thermal run-away battery fires.

https://www.avdfire.com/what-is-aqueous-vermiculite-dispersion/

SirHumphreyAppleby:

The most worrying thing here is the Tweet claiming "Firefighters say they had to call Tesla to figure out how to oust the blaze."

sbiddle:

 

driller2000:

 

I fully expect self drive cars to eventually be safer than us humans that make poor / bad decisions - and the data seems to suggest they are already getting there:

 

 

We are still many years away from full self driving cars even being close to being ready for market in anything but controlled situations. There are so many things they simply can't cope with.

 

 

 

100%. The issue is while we aren't ready and the technology isn't there, its still a press of a button away. Pilots make mistakes with autopilot, despite excessive training. While a car skill bears no resemblance to pilot skill, the ability to use autopilot is there in these cars (yes I know you apply for beta test). At least in aircraft you get training. 

sbiddle:

 

Journeyman:

 

Would a whole lot of foam be better at putting out battery fires? I know some trucks have foam and can introduce an amount of it into the water they're using. But I wonder if they can just dump all the foam on a big battery fire?

 

 

 

 

Once thermal runaway has started you can't really stop it.. Basically water and more water and more water. Foam can help, but it's not a magic fix.

 

Here's the extract from the Tesla guide for emergency services

 

 

I shall avoid installing Powerwall batteries in the house...!

Some clarifications from the Fire Fighters:

Buck also said contrary to some reports in the media, the Tesla involved in the April 17 fire did not burn out of control for four hours.

 

He also said no one from the township’s fire department called Tesla asking for help with the blaze, noting that he is not aware of the company having such a service.

 

“With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew out way of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants,” Buck said of inaccurate claims the vehicle burned for hours. “After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage.”

 

Buck said what is termed in the firefighting profession as “final extinguishment” of the vehicle — a 2019 Tesla — took several hours, but that classification does not mean the vehicle was out-of-control or had live flames. The term is mostly used in relation to structure or wild land forest fires where hot ash that seems extinguished or is buried can later reignite other material and begin burning again.

 

“We could not tear it apart or move it around to get ‘final extinguishment’ because the fact that we had two bodies in there and it was then an investigation-slash-crime scene,” Buck explained. “We had to keep it cool, were on scene for four hours, but we were simply pouring a little bit of water on it. It was not because flames were coming out. It was a reaction in the battery pan. It was not an active fire.”

afe66: I wonder whether the lower crash rate in auto pilot reflects motorway driving where things are relatively well controlled vrs chaos of inner city driving with multiple intersections, pedestrians etc

I think you're bang on here.  Many people don't like the way that Tesla is reporting their autopilot data as it misses the context in which autopilot is used.

It is a good thing that they are also reporting the data for where autopilot is off, but the other safety features are enabled and this is also showing these cars are far safer than the US average.

Full Self Driving is in limited beta at the moment with only a couple of thousand of users in the US I understand.  It seems to do a reasonable job in most cases but does not look superior to a human driver at this stage.  However Elon has been saying that the next version (9) will be a substantial step up.  Looking forward to seeing what that looks like.  I would say I'm sceptical, but at the same time optimistic of having a viable FSD in the next 12-24 months.

Mother of the year award goes to...

https://youtu.be/VS5zQKXHdpM?t=87

Just an FYI, unbuckling a seatbelt while driving immediately causes the car to activate the hazards and pull over/navigate to safety.

https://youtu.be/9KtkIarbnMg?t=37

Also, interesting to note that cutting the seatbelts in a Tesla would effectively disable autopilot and cruise control.