European Cars

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Mad Scientist
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#730612 11-Dec-2012 16:30

one thing i'm wondering - how are korean cars namely - hyundai and kia in terms of reliability and maintenance cost compared to jap and euro?

martyyn

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#730663 11-Dec-2012 17:17

I have to wonder what you are all doing with your Euro cars if they are all such dogs.

I'm now onto my 9th BMW (I get bored easily - but tis been over 20 years) and I bet my current, 22 year old BMW costs less to service and maintain than any Jap car. I can do it all myself in a couple of hours and use quality OEM parts rather than going to a dealer.

Rather than focus on a make and model, why not focus on a cars condition ?

Id rather buy a well maintained and regularly serviced 20 year old BMW with 250k on the clock than any 10 year old Japanese car which hasn't had an oil change in its 100k life.

Our 2001 Focus has had nothing but tyres, oil, plugs and filters in the five years we've owned it and its been faultless. With three kids its been absolutely hammered but it still just keeps on going.

I did an experiment with a friend of mine in the UK ten years ago. We both had GBP 5k to spend. He bought a three year old Honda somethingoother for 5k and I bought an 18 year old V12 750iL BMW for GBP 2k. Two years later I sold mine for GBP 2.5k, having spent all of GBP150 on an AFM (plus oil, plugs and filters) whilst he scrapped his when the engine blew up on the motorway.

I had heated, electric seats front and rear, heated door handles, heated washer jets, heated front windscreen, dual climate control, a heater I could set half an hour before I left home to defrost the car before I got in and more switches and buttons than Concorde. Even my dashboard was stitched leather !

Sure I probably spent the remaining 3k in petrol over the two years but I had way more fun :)

So forget about everyone's opinions based on the 'one' car they've owned and go out and find something you like and then buy the best maintained one you can find. Assuming your looking at second hand.

TinyTim

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#730730 11-Dec-2012 18:38

mattwnz: Many of their reviews don't cover reliability of products. Just features and general use. The dog and lemon guide is really the best source for information on second hand car reliability.

Specific car reliability report based on members' experiences:

http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/car-reliability

TinyTim

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#730732 11-Dec-2012 18:40

mattwnz: I remember when Paul Henry did auto reviews, and remember his motto. Don't buy a second hand european, and only keep a new European while it is in warranty. Once it is out of warranty flick it on. I have found this with all the europeon cars I have had. They have all been dogs after 5 years. Expensive to repair and things go wrong with them, inclduing lot os electrical problems. My local garage did a lot of the servicing etc, but most had electrical problems after time, and those problems were very expensve to repair.

This opinion makes second hand European cars (particularly the more popular brands like VW, Audi and BMW) particularly good value.

jonherries

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#730749 11-Dec-2012 19:00

Related question, where do you buy your oil and filters (if you do this yourself).

Jon

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#730758 11-Dec-2012 19:24

sbiddle: What becomes the definition of a European car? My Focus is built in Germany.

Priced a stop/tailight bulb for a 2008 Ford Focus as it's a special bulb only avaliable currently from Ford NZ, unless you source it from overseas yourself, I found it in online in the UK for around $8.00. Ford NZ's price is $55.50 !

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#730767 11-Dec-2012 19:41

TinyTim:
mattwnz: I remember when Paul Henry did auto reviews, and remember his motto. Don't buy a second hand european, and only keep a new European while it is in warranty. Once it is out of warranty flick it on. I have found this with all the europeon cars I have had. They have all been dogs after 5 years. Expensive to repair and things go wrong with them, inclduing lot os electrical problems. My local garage did a lot of the servicing etc, but most had electrical problems after time, and those problems were very expensve to repair.

This opinion makes second hand European cars (particularly the more popular brands like VW, Audi and BMW) particularly good value.

They can be cheap to buy, just expensive to run and keep going. It is one reason they depreciate so much worse than Japs

mattwnz

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#730768 11-Dec-2012 19:43

joker97: one thing i'm wondering - how are korean cars namely - hyundai and kia in terms of reliability and maintenance cost compared to jap and euro?

They used to be poor, but I think they have improved a lot according to the D&L guide (I mean their new models). Many of the Jap cars aren't actually made in Jap anymore. Some are made in Thailand, France, the UK etc

skyhigh

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#730805 11-Dec-2012 21:04

martyyn: I have to wonder what you are all doing with your Euro cars if they are all such dogs.

Rather than focus on a make and model, why not focus on a cars condition ?

I agree totally with this point. You are generalising too much. There are many factors to consider when looking at an individual car, whatever the make. A Toyota could be a bad choice, and the BMW the good choice if you get a good one.

I have been blessed with good fortune on my choices and as a result I fully endorse German made cars, esp Audi and BMW.

I am an engineer and I respect the level of quality and ingenuity that goes into these cars.

I am big on safety so BMW and AUDI really tick all the boxes for me (was an ex Volvo owner). They also think about longevity in their design and you cannot beat the interior build quality of AUDI, they really do last forever and still look new after many knocks.

Look for where the car has come from and the owners it has had. Owners of BMWs and AUDIs tend to take care of their cars and maintain them regularly by a dealer. Not so sure that a sporty Nissan or Subaru would not have been thrashed to death.

My BMW is 2000 and AUDI 2004. So far they are both gems with no problems, just regular oil and filter changes with the odd minor thing to fix, nothing expensive.

Safety for me is not just about number of airbags. It is handling ability and superior braking with stability control. The best safety feature might be the ability to avoid a horrendous crash. German cars are simply the best engineered in the world. You will see/feel that if you own one.

Good luck in your hunt and remember you don't have to have a brand stuck in your mind, find the best car you can... it might be a Skoda!!!

mattwnz

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#730821 11-Dec-2012 21:21

martyyn: I have to wonder what you are all doing with your Euro cars if they are all such dogs.

It is manufacturing related. Own a Fiat, or a Peugeot and you will know what I mean. One flaw with the Fiats I had was that if you had two people using the electric windows at the same time, it would blow the fuse, and we were told not to as it was a known problem and not to do that. Also all the central locking failed after a few years, and this happened on two cars. Peugeots tend to have very advanced features, and are cutting edge, but I have had all sorts of problems, such as lights in the dash failing, the speedo working and then showing 0km/h when you are going 100km/h and lots of other electrical niggles. Then I had problems with the brake lights leaking, and filling the space tyre cavity with water, and I wasn't even aware of it for several years until I had to change the tyre and it was full of water. These problems were all on new cars. The list goes on. Now have a RAV4, and have had it for over 5 years, not a single problem. Rates very well in the D&L guide. Would NEVER go back to European cars again. One reason I did go for europeon cars, is that they can have higher safety ratings, but not sure if that is the case today.

jonherries

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#730834 11-Dec-2012 21:36

I have a few principles for how I buy cars:

Never new
NZ new over import
Try to get the second or third release year of a model rather than first as lots of bugs get squashed in refreshes
Check out known issues for that specific year/model.

Few thoughts around inspection

Door and panel alignment
Engine bay cleanliness, colour of radiator fluid, engine oil
Completeness of maintenance documentation
Wear on drivers seat, steering wheel, gear knob.
Check all the switches.
Then think about the engine...

Jon

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TinyTim

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#730837 11-Dec-2012 21:40

mattwnz

One flaw with the Fiats I had was that if you had two people using the electric windows at the same time, it would blow the fuse, and we were told not to as it was a known problem and not to do that. Also all the central locking failed after a few years, and this happened on two cars. Peugeots tend to have very advanced features, and are cutting edge, but I have had all sorts of problems, such as lights in the dash failing, the speedo working and then showing 0km/h when you are going 100km/h and lots of other electrical niggles. Then I had problems with the brake lights leaking, and filling the space tyre cavity with water, and I wasn't even aware of it for several years until I had to change the tyre and it was full of water. These problems were all on new cars.

I had a Mazda that had a tyre cavity that filled with water too.

(Nonetheless, very reliable, only one breakdown in ten years)

alasta

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#730925 11-Dec-2012 22:29

mattwnz:
joker97: one thing i'm wondering - how are korean cars namely - hyundai and kia in terms of reliability and maintenance cost compared to jap and euro?

They used to be poor, but I think they have improved a lot according to the D&L guide (I mean their new models). Many of the Jap cars aren't actually made in Jap anymore. Some are made in Thailand, France, the UK etc

There is an interesting article here about the vast improvements of Hyundai's quality in recent years. I bought a new Kia Rio about six months ago and I'm very pleased with it. The previous model was reliable and good value but like most older Korean cars it had quite crude handling and ride quality, whereas the new model feels at least as refined as any of its Japanese counterparts and probably isn't far off the VW Polo given that it's designed by Peter Schreyer who is ex VW/Audi. The 1.4l engine feels short on torque when carrying weight or going uphill, but for $25k you don't exactly expect a muscle car.

I should also point out that I have had excellent service from Kia NZ and the local dealer who are obviously serious about busting the lingering perception that Korean cars are the poor cousin of the more established Japanese marques.

I'd be a bit more wary of SsangYong. They seem to be still looked down on by the motoring press and their cut throat pricing puts them more in the territory of the Chinese offerings than the latest Hyundai/Kia models.

urban

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#730934 11-Dec-2012 22:44

Chainsaw: While on cars - I did some searching and took a list of possibles to my mechanic, he immediately crossed off the Fiats (drat, I have a soft spot for them) and said don't go Euro.

So i'm looking at a 2007 and a 2008 Suzuki SX4 1.6. Any thoughts good or bad on that one?

I owned a Suzuki Ignis Sport from brand new, in the 7 years I had owned her... I only had to replace the tyres! How's that for reliability!

The SX4's are okay cars... but don't be expecting much from the stock 1.6 models. If you want a lil more kick, you should have a look at the Sport models, with stiffer suspension, sport seats and a 2.0 engine that loves to rev.

dickytim

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#731040 12-Dec-2012 07:02

jonherries: Related question, where do you buy your oil and filters (if you do this yourself).

Jon

Repco/Super Cheap/Dad's workshop.

I looks for specials as I use synthetic oil mostly.

Recently I have changed to magnitec from formula R and noticed the oil doesn't discolour as quickly or break down

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