$1160 for a car battery??!!

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › $1160 for a car battery??!!

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#1705833 19-Jan-2017 15:14

TimA:

kharris:

TimA:

The expected lifespan of a vehicle battery is minimum of 5 years.

Really? Where did you dig up that "fact" from. If you get 5 years out of a battery then you are doing well. Anything over 4 is a bonus. The OP's battery lasted 3.5 years... that's not too bad. He could be doing lots of short trips.

Century batteries offer a 3 year warranty on all new batteries. That means they expect that battery to operate with in its manufactured specifications for at least 3 years. With reasonable use one would expect to gain a further 2 years use out of a battery. Thats what i was told at VW where i sold 5 batteries a day. Am i asking too much?

No you're not. I must have had a phenomenal run of good luck, having only ever replaced 1 battery after owning about 8 cars. Two of which were purchased second hand and sold with the same battery in them after 7 and 8 years respectively.

Are you people really needing to replace your batteries every 3-4 years?? Is it because my most modern car is 1998 and the old fashioned batteries last longer or something?

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#1705875 19-Jan-2017 15:39

gbwelly:

No you're not. I must have had a phenomenal run of good luck, having only ever replaced 1 battery after owning about 8 cars. Two of which were purchased second hand and sold with the same battery in them after 7 and 8 years respectively.

Are you people really needing to replace your batteries every 3-4 years?? Is it because my most modern car is 1998 and the old fashioned batteries last longer or something?

Less to do with modern batteries, more to do with the car.

Modern cars have a lot more standby electronics, and use a lot more electrical power when the car is off.

Things like alarm system, computers, follow me home (stay on for 30s) headlights, puddle lights, more advanced entertainment systems standby draw, and more powerful starter motors all add more cycles to the batteries than was the case with old cars. Some cars have particually bad standby draw.

Stop Start requires a much bigger still starter motor (for faster start) than non equipt cars, and it gets operated far more frequently.

Also deep cycling (running flat) is really bad for lead acid start batteries. Try your best to avoid leaving lights on, and if you are leaving your car in the garage while going overseas for a few months try put the car on a trickle charger.

The above doesn't really apply to the traction packs in electric & hybrid cars (they are a different chemistry, and are designed for more cycling, but still degrade over time), but note that all the electric have a little (it doesn't need to crank an engine) old school 12v lead acid battery tucked away somewhere for auxiliaries. (It means standard 12v carparts like electric windows can be used, and means that if the main pack is isolated for any reason (i.e. automatically after bad crash), that your safety critical stuff like lights will still work for a bit).

Bung

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#1705916 19-Jan-2017 16:41

I thought that at least as far as petrol engines go the primary kick to get the engine going again was to spark the cylinder sitting on compression. The load on the starter being less than the initial start from cold. How this will survive in an older engine will be interesting.

My last battery was 6 years old and replaced early just to eliminate old battery as a cause of SRS codes.

Coil

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#1705924 19-Jan-2017 17:03

My 1999 BMW 328 has its original battery still in place, Works great, never been flat yet. Left lights on over night and all.

Hammerer

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#1705976 19-Jan-2017 19:10

jonathan18:

So technologies that I thought would save on-going running costs and reduce my environmental impact through reducing fuel consumption end up costing me more ...

If you believe what the automobile industry tell you.

I have a lot of empathy because there is so much marketing blurb and industry commentary that make it difficult to find out what is really worthwhile.

Maybe, buy a small diesel vehicle for torque / towing power. Even then I would be extremely reluctant because they endanger my respiration and health a lot more than petrol motors.

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#1705982 19-Jan-2017 19:23

Have only scanned thread but in answer to Op, start stop vehicles require a different type of battery due to the hard work it needs to do. Some are AGM and others EFB (Enhanced flooded batteries) The T110 is EFB so if that is what the vehicles requires then it needs to be fitted, cheaper batteries the same foot print will last less time.

Start stop is causing all sorts of issues with batteries and some manufacturers have only put a 12 month warranty and I believe Mazda have but not sure the models. The Ford ranger has/had an issue which I believe is related to the charging where it wasn't getting enough charge.

As to CGA and warranties on batteries, manufacturers generally make batteries to last 42 months but that depends on how its used and the climate. One size doesn't fit all, basically most warranties or what people perceive to be a warranty aren't its the way they are used. Over my time in batteries over two companies 60-70% of claims aren't real warranties due to labour or manufacturing fault but most people believe than when a battery is flat its a warranty.

People need to remember that all batteries are not the same and it is harder with the start stop to get a battery to last that is the trade off with these vehicles.

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#1706035 19-Jan-2017 19:37

TimA:

Century batteries offer a 3 year warranty on all new batteries. That means they expect that battery to operate with in its manufactured specifications for at least 3 years. With reasonable use one would expect to gain a further 2 years use out of a battery. Thats what i was told at VW where i sold 5 batteries a day. Am i asking too much?

manufacturers warranties are marketing speak, there are companies that have 42 but you can't contract out of the CGA so take no notice its nothing to do with quality of battery as most are much of a muchness or from same/similar factories.

Again start stop has changed the demands on batteries that they have, as yet, to find a solution.

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jonathan18

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#1706036 19-Jan-2017 19:43

jeffnz:

Have only scanned thread but in answer to Op, start stop vehicles require a different type of battery due to the hard work it needs to do. Some are AGM and others EFB (Enhanced flooded batteries) The T110 is EFB so if that is what the vehicles requires then it needs to be fitted, cheaper batteries the same foot print will last less time.

Start stop is causing all sorts of issues with batteries and some manufacturers have only put a 12 month warranty and I believe Mazda have but not sure the models. The Ford ranger has/had an issue which I believe is related to the charging where it wasn't getting enough charge.

As to CGA and warranties on batteries, manufacturers generally make batteries to last 42 months but that depends on how its used and the climate. One size doesn't fit all, basically most warranties or what people perceive to be a warranty aren't its the way they are used. Over my time in batteries over two companies 60-70% of claims aren't real warranties due to labour or manufacturing fault but most people believe than when a battery is flat its a warranty.

People need to remember that all batteries are not the same and it is harder with the start stop to get a battery to last that is the trade off with these vehicles.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

In regards to a replacement T110 for my car - how can I be sure that the Ultra branded model, which the seller is adamant is a T110 (think he said a model # of T110 LSBU?), is indeed an acceptable replacement for the original battery? Are there any specific specs I should be comparing between old and replacement to ensure a suitable match? Thanks again.

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#1706039 19-Jan-2017 19:44

I hate istop, it is like getting a kick in the back every time you stop and start. But there are ways of not enabling it. eg having your air conditioning on high. Or not pressing the brake fully down, or wiggling the steering wheel when you stop. All are tricks the dealer told me. But really drivers should be able to permanently disable it, if they don't want it. I would expect a car battery to last at least 5 years, never had one that hasn't. I am not sure if an istop car needs a special battery though, I thought that was only the ones that use Eloop?

jeffnz

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#1706042 19-Jan-2017 19:58

jonathan18:

jeffnz:

Have only scanned thread but in answer to Op, start stop vehicles require a different type of battery due to the hard work it needs to do. Some are AGM and others EFB (Enhanced flooded batteries) The T110 is EFB so if that is what the vehicles requires then it needs to be fitted, cheaper batteries the same foot print will last less time.

Start stop is causing all sorts of issues with batteries and some manufacturers have only put a 12 month warranty and I believe Mazda have but not sure the models. The Ford ranger has/had an issue which I believe is related to the charging where it wasn't getting enough charge.

As to CGA and warranties on batteries, manufacturers generally make batteries to last 42 months but that depends on how its used and the climate. One size doesn't fit all, basically most warranties or what people perceive to be a warranty aren't its the way they are used. Over my time in batteries over two companies 60-70% of claims aren't real warranties due to labour or manufacturing fault but most people believe than when a battery is flat its a warranty.

People need to remember that all batteries are not the same and it is harder with the start stop to get a battery to last that is the trade off with these vehicles.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

In regards to a replacement T110 for my car - how can I be sure that the Ultra branded model, which the seller is adamant is a T110 (think he said a model # of T110 LSBU?), is indeed an acceptable replacement for the original battery? Are there any specific specs I should be comparing between old and replacement to ensure a suitable match? Thanks again.

I'm pretty sure its a T110LEFB the EFB meaning Enhanced flooded battery which are specifically designed for start stop. Your manual may show battery number which will be similar as that is a JIS standard part number. The Ultra is just a brand. I can check when at work tomorrow and PM you info on it if you want.

edit: senior moment wrong part number

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#1706065 19-Jan-2017 20:01

mattwnz:

I hate istop, it is like getting a kick in the back every time you stop and start. But there are ways of not enabling it. eg having your air conditioning on high. Or not pressing the brake fully down, or wiggling the steering wheel when you stop. All are tricks the dealer told me. But really drivers should be able to permanently disable it, if they don't want it. I would expect a car battery to last at least 5 years, never had one that hasn't. I am not sure if an istop car needs a special battery though, I thought that was only the ones that use Eloop?

in a lot of earlier start stop models you were able to switch off but so many did it negated the reasoning for start stop so it is now illegal in a lot of countries to have this feature. In short I don't think so unless you know someone that work around the computer. Lot of info in car forums for particular models, it may be worth some reading.

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#1706108 19-Jan-2017 21:24

re: warranty - standard warranty for the usual Lead Acid from Toyota is 3 years.

re: price for modern batteries - battery for Camry Hybrid is within that range (>$800) only because it has temperature sensor. Same battery without sensor would cost 1/2 that price. Some people replace temperature sensor and do not buy "branded" ones for x2 price

re: Batteries for Start-Stop. Dude made millions on selling his invention (2-in1 combination of common Lead Acid but working slightly as a Capacitor) to car manufacturers who saw an opportunity to offer something new - that nonsense feature - "start-stop". My friend has it in Polo and he switched it permanently off.

Real start-stops works perfectly well in hybrid car - engine is usually off at the intersections but you immediately start moving in Electric Drive (as in EV).

Scott3

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#1706131 19-Jan-2017 23:00

RUKI:

re: price for modern batteries - battery for Camry Hybrid is within that range (>$800) only because it has temperature sensor. Same battery without sensor would cost 1/2 that price. Some people replace temperature sensor and do not buy "branded" ones for x2 price

Assuming you are talking the 12V battery, that's nuts. Assuming the Camry Hybrid has the same drivetrain configuration as the Prius, the 12V battery isn't even used to start the engine, just for accessory loads. In the below diagram Motor/Generator 1 is used for the purpose (powered from the high voltage battery)

Why is temperature monitoring even needed for a 12V battery, and given it is only for accessory loads, shouldn't a tiny battery do fine.

mattwnz

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#1706138 19-Jan-2017 23:46

jeffnz:
mattwnz:

I hate istop, it is like getting a kick in the back every time you stop and start. But there are ways of not enabling it. eg having your air conditioning on high. Or not pressing the brake fully down, or wiggling the steering wheel when you stop. All are tricks the dealer told me. But really drivers should be able to permanently disable it, if they don't want it. I would expect a car battery to last at least 5 years, never had one that hasn't. I am not sure if an istop car needs a special battery though, I thought that was only the ones that use Eloop?

in a lot of earlier start stop models you were able to switch off but so many did it negated the reasoning for start stop so it is now illegal in a lot of countries to have this feature. In short I don't think so unless you know someone that work around the computer. Lot of info in car forums for particular models, it may be worth some reading.

The reason it seems to be used now is it increase fuel economy specs. At the end of the drive, I will show how many trees you have saved using the feature.

cadman

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#1706139 19-Jan-2017 23:54

kharris:

TimA:

The expected lifespan of a vehicle battery is minimum of 5 years.

Really? Where did you dig up that "fact" from. If you get 5 years out of a battery then you are doing well. Anything over 4 is a bonus. The OP's battery lasted 3.5 years... that's not too bad. He could be doing lots of short trips.

Nah. I got 5 years out of one that I deep discharged badly a few times. The one it replaced was 10 years old (got the receipt off the previous owner and the date on the battery aligned).

If you're not getting at least 5 years out of a starting battery there's something wrong like excessive draw when it's off.

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