General consensus at traffic lights vs pedestrians

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Ultimate Geek

#1775102 3-May-2017 18:54

Slightly off topic, my pet peeve is people running orange lights when they could safely stop. The amount of people i see here in Chch who cruise through orange lights as if they are green (including turning through intersections when they're behind the stopping lines, its a different story if they're in the middle of the intersection) is amazing. I do wish they would be ticketed.

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#1775103 3-May-2017 18:58

SheriffNZ: Slightly off topic, my pet peeve is people running orange lights when they could safely stop. The amount of people i see here in Chch who cruise through orange lights as if they are green (including turning through intersections when they're behind the stopping lines, its a different story if they're in the middle of the intersection) is amazing. I do wish they would be ticketed.

"Could safely stop" eh ...

For those not intending to flout the law and intending to abide - Better to have flashing green before the amber. In some countries they have a timer on the lights to show how many seconds remaining.

SheriffNZ

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Ultimate Geek

#1775107 3-May-2017 19:03

joker97:
SheriffNZ: Slightly off topic, my pet peeve is people running orange lights when they could safely stop. The amount of people i see here in Chch who cruise through orange lights as if they are green (including turning through intersections when they're behind the stopping lines, its a different story if they're in the middle of the intersection) is amazing. I do wish they would be ticketed.

"Could safely stop" eh ...

For those not intending to flout the law and intending to abide - Better to have flashing green before the amber. In some countries they have a timer on the lights to show how many seconds remaining.

Yeah, I appreciate "could stop safely" is open to interpretation. I agree on the flashing green lights. Not a bad option but imagine the uproar if things were changed....

Oblivian

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#1775114 3-May-2017 19:09

Rappelle:

joker97:

Back in NZ nowadays, pedestrians take up all the green traffic light time to cross, so that generally you can't turn unless you turn after the light is red (even then sometimes the pedestrians are STILL crossing!!!)

It is not an issue if the red has gone light be the time you're able to turn, as long as you entered the intersection while it was green. In fact, you are required to enter the intersection on green even if you must give way to oncoming traffic or pedestrians.

Errrr?

Theres a rule that clearly states do not enter an intersection unless your exit is clear. This includes traffic you are giving way to (oncomming) You can't guarantee it will be the time the lights change. So 'creeping' as it is termed is to be used with extreme prejudice and caution. It's even deterred (or was during my lessons) by the AA tutors.

Oblivian

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#1775121 3-May-2017 19:29

Rappelle:

Oblivian:

Rappelle:

joker97:

Back in NZ nowadays, pedestrians take up all the green traffic light time to cross, so that generally you can't turn unless you turn after the light is red (even then sometimes the pedestrians are STILL crossing!!!)

It is not an issue if the red has gone light be the time you're able to turn, as long as you entered the intersection while it was green. In fact, you are required to enter the intersection on green even if you must give way to oncoming traffic or pedestrians.

Errrr?

Theres a rule that clearly states do not enter an intersection unless your exit is clear. This includes traffic you are giving way to (oncomming) You can't guarantee it will be the time the lights change. So 'creeping' as it is termed is to be used with extreme prejudice and caution. It's even deterred (or was during my lessons) by the AA tutors.

Hmm I was recently on a lesson, and entered the intersection at lights to turn right, and waited for oncoming traffic. Instructor said this was necessary. Trying to find information to support this / have asked him for information.

Disclaimer... I was tutored some 20 odd years ago :P

I see now its been outline separately

When turning right at traffic lights you are able to enter and stop in the intersection, as long as there are no other cars already waiting in the intersection to also turn right. When it’s safe to do so you may complete the turn even if the light is no longer green by the time you get to turn.

Not doing any favours to stop red light runners!

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#1775122 3-May-2017 19:33

Rappelle:

Oblivian:

Rappelle:

joker97:

Back in NZ nowadays, pedestrians take up all the green traffic light time to cross, so that generally you can't turn unless you turn after the light is red (even then sometimes the pedestrians are STILL crossing!!!)

It is not an issue if the red has gone light be the time you're able to turn, as long as you entered the intersection while it was green. In fact, you are required to enter the intersection on green even if you must give way to oncoming traffic or pedestrians.

Errrr?

Theres a rule that clearly states do not enter an intersection unless your exit is clear. This includes traffic you are giving way to (oncomming) You can't guarantee it will be the time the lights change. So 'creeping' as it is termed is to be used with extreme prejudice and caution. It's even deterred (or was during my lessons) by the AA tutors.

Hmm I was recently on a lesson, and entered the intersection at lights to turn right, and waited for oncoming traffic. Instructor said this was necessary. Trying to find information to support this / have asked him for information.

In Auckland and Wellington and Christchurch, it IS necessary. Otherwise you will be at the intersection for an entire peak period of 4 hours.

Oblivian

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#1775126 3-May-2017 19:39

We going wayyy off track now.

But that necessity again comes back to only existing as people NOT doing what they are meant to (blocking intersections, running yellows/reds, Walking across pedestrians when their time has been and its now the time of the car flow, following too close or letting controlled side traffic in abruptly causing a constintina effect for 3Kms back)

It's impatience and bullet proof steel box vs using brain

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFd03gzcVROx9osaQYNPm_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RPkC9hoMfE

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SheriffNZ

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Ultimate Geek

#1775130 3-May-2017 19:46

joker97:
Rappelle:

Oblivian:

Rappelle:

joker97:

Back in NZ nowadays, pedestrians take up all the green traffic light time to cross, so that generally you can't turn unless you turn after the light is red (even then sometimes the pedestrians are STILL crossing!!!)

It is not an issue if the red has gone light be the time you're able to turn, as long as you entered the intersection while it was green. In fact, you are required to enter the intersection on green even if you must give way to oncoming traffic or pedestrians.

Errrr?

Theres a rule that clearly states do not enter an intersection unless your exit is clear. This includes traffic you are giving way to (oncomming) You can't guarantee it will be the time the lights change. So 'creeping' as it is termed is to be used with extreme prejudice and caution. It's even deterred (or was during my lessons) by the AA tutors.

Hmm I was recently on a lesson, and entered the intersection at lights to turn right, and waited for oncoming traffic. Instructor said this was necessary. Trying to find information to support this / have asked him for information.

In Auckland and Wellington and Christchurch, it IS necessary. Otherwise you will be at the intersection for an entire peak period of 4 hours.

As long as you're the only car in the intersection, this appears to be legal, from the comments above.

cadman

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#1775149 3-May-2017 20:48

RunningMan:

cadman:[snip]

although I tend to ignore red arrows unless there's a valid reason for them being there i.e. lack of visibility.

Really? Please don't drive anywhere near me if you do.

Perhaps you're not old enough to remember when we didn't have them simply because they're superfluous with the GIVE WAY rule.

Aredwood

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#1775156 3-May-2017 21:16

Big problem in Auckland is lots of intersections have both a give way to pedestrians and traffic lights for the left turn. And most of them the left lane is for both left turning and straight through traffic.

Situation - car wants to turn left, pedestrian light goes green and red arrow blocks car from moving despite pedestrian starting from other side of road. A few seconds later the red arrow disappears, but car still can't go as pedestrian is now blocking the car's path so car has to give way. Meanwhile the sensors in the road detect that no cars are moving despite the green light, so that light phase is cut short. If your lucky 1 car might be able to turn left by the time the pedestrian has finished crossing.

This system is dangerous for the pedestrians, as if a car starts moving as soon as the red arrow disappears. It will often be right when a pedestrian is is in the car's path.

Alot of it comes back to Auckland Transport being short sighted. They are installing lots of new intersections with combined left turn and straight through lanes. And even when they upgrade intersections they often won't put in dedicated left turn only lanes. The default should be always to put in a dedicated left turn only lane. Unless there are close buildings either side that mean that not enough land is available. Dedicated left turn is safer for pedestrians as cars are held back by a red arrow the whole time they are crossing. And cars also benefit as they get a green arrow without having to give way to any pedestrians.

The roads around the new Northwest mall in Westgate are an example of these stupid intersections. It has already turned into a cluster**** and Auckland transport have already permanently closed some right turn lanes. Which shows that their traffic flow modelling was completely wrong from the beginning. That area was all empty land not long ago, so they could have easily made it far more both pedestrian friendly and car friendly. But they instead decided to repeat all of the mistakes of the last 50 years.

dejadeadnz

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#1775160 3-May-2017 21:44

Rikkitic:

Come on guys, if you are in a car and you hit a pedestrian, you will most likely really hurt that person. This will leave you feeling like utter crap, regardless of whose fault it is. Far better to be extra alert and, if necessary, go out of your way to avoid such collisions regardless of the road rules. I doubt either of you are the disturbed kind of person who takes pleasure in seeing someone else get ‘what they deserve’ when what they get may mean spending the rest of their life as a quadriplegic. People make mistakes. Or they are just dumb. Or they are arrogant jerks. So what? You don’t have to plough into them to make some kind of point.

You're exactly right but you're also wasting your time. The kind of people who hold the sort of views that you were replying to are clearly sociopaths whose regard for others' wellbeing is basically none. They don't care. And this is yet again another illustration why I'd most prefer to have the ability to ignore people like TimA on here because I consider it a form of visual pollution to actually have to read that kind of rubbish.

cadman

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#1775205 3-May-2017 22:08

TimA:

cadman:[snip]

although I tend to ignore red arrows unless there's a valid reason for them being there i.e. lack of visibility.

Do you mean you ignore left hand turn red arrows if your path is clear or all arrows in general. I do NOT condone running red lights of ANY nature.
If it was a give way intersection it wouldn't have lights.

All and apply the give way rule when there's a green signal. If there's a green signal there's no need for a red left or right turn arrow unless visibility is restricted due to curvature of the road or similar because there's no vehicle that can be on a green arrow that will cross your path that you wouldn't give way to regardless.

Controlled intersections can have signs or signals. All signals are is effectively changing signs (which in theory is to improve traffic flow but I've seen little evidence of that except occasionally at peak times).

Batman

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#1775248 3-May-2017 23:23

Oblivian:

We going wayyy off track now.

But that necessity again comes back to only existing as people NOT doing what they are meant to (blocking intersections, running yellows/reds, Walking across pedestrians when their time has been and its now the time of the car flow, following too close or letting controlled side traffic in abruptly causing a constintina effect for 3Kms back)

It's impatience and bullet proof steel box vs using brain

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFd03gzcVROx9osaQYNPm_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RPkC9hoMfE

This thread has gone wayyyy off track yes.

My question was - do cars cross before the pedestrians get near, not whether people run them over!

Geektastic

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#1775254 4-May-2017 00:12

Cars and pedestrians should NEVER be given the green light at the same time to occupy the same piece of road at the same time.

It's insane. Just asking for trouble.

dickytim

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#1775268 4-May-2017 06:09

joker97:

Hi a long time ago, driving in NZ when you turn left at the traffic lights you always gave way to the pedestrians who had the green man light.

When I was in urban Australia, you never give way to pedestrians who had the green man light, you just go if there's a gap.

Back in NZ nowadays, pedestrians take up all the green traffic light time to cross, so that generally you can't turn unless you turn after the light is red (even then sometimes the pedestrians are STILL crossing!!!)

So - is it acceptable to just drive and turn left when pedestrians are still far away on the other side?

In that situation yes, some sets of lights have a red arrow that is lit when the green man is going for crossing, in which case no. And I agree with what happens in Aussie, basically so long as the pedestrians don't have to yield to you it seems Ok.

I have not however tested this in a court of law so this is all my opinion!

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