Price of Petrol

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#2103634 9-Oct-2018 07:09

quickymart: If they take off or remove a tax, how are roads going to be maintained, or new ones be built?

The same way roads will be maintained when everybody has an EV and pays no road users charges.. Oh wait.

Technofreak

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#2103636 9-Oct-2018 07:21

quickymart: If they take off or remove a tax, how are roads going to be maintained, or new ones be built?

By using the tax that's been on fuel for many many years. It was originally called a road tax, but they've siphoned that off for other uses and added extra taxes to make up for it.

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Coil

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#2103637 9-Oct-2018 07:21

sbiddle:

quickymart: If they take off or remove a tax, how are roads going to be maintained, or new ones be built?

The same way roads will be maintained when everybody has an EV and pays no road users charges.. Oh wait.

When the national fleet of EV's is 3% thats when they introduce a RUC on them. IIRC it is 3% or something.

Here is my last 20 fuel ups. The last 2 were in whangarei..

MikeB4

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#2103643 9-Oct-2018 07:37

@Coil you need a little car like mine. I am averaging 6.4L/100km. 😁

Coil

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#2103644 9-Oct-2018 07:40

MikeB4: @Coil you need a little car like mine. I am averaging 6.4L/100km. 😁

I'd never trade up this masterpiece of engineering.

GV27

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#2103645 9-Oct-2018 07:48

dickytim:

The are building a tram to benefit 0.1% of Auckland, but to appease their Green party overlords, throwing good money after bad on poorly thought out and implemented public transport solutions.

Just on this; there are so many buses forecast to come down Dominion Road that they won't be able to stop and they'll completely snake up the entire inner city. LRT cuts the number of these buses required to move the same number of people from between 50% - 67%. It's something we have to do no matter what.

sbiddle

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#2103648 9-Oct-2018 07:57

GV27:

dickytim:

The are building a tram to benefit 0.1% of Auckland, but to appease their Green party overlords, throwing good money after bad on poorly thought out and implemented public transport solutions.

Just on this; there are so many buses forecast to come down Dominion Road that they won't be able to stop and they'll completely snake up the entire inner city. LRT cuts the number of these buses required to move the same number of people from between 50% - 67%. It's something we have to do no matter what.

Not to mention the LRT which will take longer to get to the airport throughout most of the day than the current bus. I just had a quick look back at my Google timeline from Sunday and it took 31 mins to get from the CBD to the Domestic terminal on the Skybus - LRT is estimated to have a 44 min travel time to Britomart.

Yes Skybus can still take upwards of 45-50 mins in peak hours but with Waterview open they're a lot quicker than the 60 mins they could take during peak hours.

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Lastman

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#2103650 9-Oct-2018 08:02

sbiddle:
Based on some pretty confidential data I've seen a few times in recent months it's safe to say margins have not gone up significantly - those who say they are basically misinterpreting MBIE data and/or have no idea what they're really talking about.

What we're seeing is the result of an incredibly competitive retail market. Gull are selling their watered down ethanol blended petrol that a) costs less and b) they pay less excise tax on, meaning other operators are forced to compete on a regional basis with Gull. As Gull's cost base is so much lower with unattended sites and limited distribution their overall costs of running their business are a mere fraction of what it costs the other big operators. The other operators have no choice but to compete however - and that's meaning that the "national" price (which kinda doesn't really now but is set by Z) is effectively subsidising the lower fuel costs elsewhere.

MBIE reporting shows margins going up is based on this - MBIE have no capability to monitor regional pricing, nor factor in the discount schemes such as Smartfuel that have further skewed the market and should be banned. The national price is a minimim of 6cpl higher than it should be, simply so they can give instant 6cpl discounts. Overall market gross profit is only up slightly from what it was a few years ago.

In a nutshell the reason for increasing petrol costs is primarily a combination of a) high oil prices and b) falling $ but the effects of the Auckland tax increase, discount schemes and the requirement to subsidise petrol to compensate for discounting are all having an impact.

Z should have never been allowed to buy Caltex and the only ComCom member smart enough to realise that was Dr Jill Walker (the ACCC representative on secondment) who had already dealt with the Australian fuel market years before and been involved in the decision to ban supermarket vouchers in excess of 4cpl. The problem was the fuel market was so poor with both Mobil and Caltex looking to exit because they couldn't make money, and nobody else wanted the asset.

Z played their hand and won. They've now got Z shafting customers hand over fist with the highest retail prices in the market, and Caltex that's offering higher levels of discounting. Combining the two gives them far better overall margins that either Mobil or BP.

Petrol in Wellington and the South Island should be around 16c less than what it is now (10c for the subsidies and 6c because Smartfuel should be banned) - but for that to happen others elsewhere in the country need to pay more.

.

Gull’s 91 octane doesn’t contain ethanol so I would think the excise effect over all would be small.

GV27

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#2103651 9-Oct-2018 08:03

sbiddle:

GV27:

dickytim:

The are building a tram to benefit 0.1% of Auckland, but to appease their Green party overlords, throwing good money after bad on poorly thought out and implemented public transport solutions.

Just on this; there are so many buses forecast to come down Dominion Road that they won't be able to stop and they'll completely snake up the entire inner city. LRT cuts the number of these buses required to move the same number of people from between 50% - 67%. It's something we have to do no matter what.

Not to mention the LRT which will take longer to get to the airport throughout most of the day than the current bus. I just had a quick look back at my Google timeline from Sunday and it took 31 mins to get from the CBD to the Domestic terminal on the Skybus - LRT is estimated to have a 44 min travel time to Britomart.

Yes Skybus can still take upwards of 45-50 mins in peak hours but with Waterview open they're a lot quicker than the 60 mins they could take during peak hours.

Well no matter what you do with the airport (LRT, busway, HRT, whatever) we still need the Light Rail anyway. As such, the cost of LRT to the airport is really the marginal cost of the Mt Roskill/Mangere/Airport leg and not the whole thing, part of which has to be built either way.

sbiddle

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#2103654 9-Oct-2018 08:11

Lastman:

Gull’s 91 octane doesn’t contain ethanol so I would think the excise effect over all would be small.

It was a 91 E10 product the last time I purchased it in Auckland (which was earlier in the year). Has it changed since then?

Coil

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#2103655 9-Oct-2018 08:19

sbiddle:

Lastman:

Gull’s 91 octane doesn’t contain ethanol so I would think the excise effect over all would be small.

It was a 91 E10 product the last time I purchased it in Auckland (which was earlier in the year). Has it changed since then?

Gull 91 contains no Ethanol, Unless you are taking the mickey meaning their 98 is 91 + E10 lol..

surfisup1000

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#2103658 9-Oct-2018 08:28

quickymart: If they take off or remove a tax, how are roads going to be maintained, or new ones be built?

Agree. When people say one tax or another is too high and should be cut/removed, I ask how will the government will replace that tax revenue.

It would be better to argue for government to cut unnecessary costs so it can cut taxes. But then it is political.

Aredwood

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#2103660 9-Oct-2018 08:41

GV27:
dickytim:

The are building a tram to benefit 0.1% of Auckland, but to appease their Green party overlords, throwing good money after bad on poorly thought out and implemented public transport solutions.

Just on this; there are so many buses forecast to come down Dominion Road that they won't be able to stop and they'll completely snake up the entire inner city. LRT cuts the number of these buses required to move the same number of people from between 50% - 67%. It's something we have to do no matter what.

They can convert the cycleways into busways. Especially that pink cycleway that cost $20 million to build. That will get the buses from Dominion rd to Nelson St. And from there, they can easily get to the lower city area where the trams were going to finish anyway.

Either way, my point still stands. In that poor people are being asked to pay billions extra in petrol taxes to fund new transport service's in rich areas. And rich people can more easily avoid the tax by buying EVs, hybrids, generally living closer to their work, more likely to have jobs that can be done from home.

trig42

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#2103661 9-Oct-2018 08:44

GV27:

sbiddle:

GV27:

dickytim:

The are building a tram to benefit 0.1% of Auckland, but to appease their Green party overlords, throwing good money after bad on poorly thought out and implemented public transport solutions.

Just on this; there are so many buses forecast to come down Dominion Road that they won't be able to stop and they'll completely snake up the entire inner city. LRT cuts the number of these buses required to move the same number of people from between 50% - 67%. It's something we have to do no matter what.

Not to mention the LRT which will take longer to get to the airport throughout most of the day than the current bus. I just had a quick look back at my Google timeline from Sunday and it took 31 mins to get from the CBD to the Domestic terminal on the Skybus - LRT is estimated to have a 44 min travel time to Britomart.

Yes Skybus can still take upwards of 45-50 mins in peak hours but with Waterview open they're a lot quicker than the 60 mins they could take during peak hours.

Well no matter what you do with the airport (LRT, busway, HRT, whatever) we still need the Light Rail anyway. As such, the cost of LRT to the airport is really the marginal cost of the Mt Roskill/Mangere/Airport leg and not the whole thing, part of which has to be built either way.

Much more public transport is needed. LRT along the NW motorway should be built before the Dominion Road line IMO, or they should both be built together.

The Dominion Road line is not for the express purpose of getting people to and from the Airport. IT will begin/end there, but it will be much more useful for people working and living in those areas (Mangere, Onehunga, Mt Roskill) than travellers. It will take a lot of buses off the roads and out of the CBD also.

sbiddle

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#2103663 9-Oct-2018 08:53

Coil:

sbiddle:

Lastman:

Gull’s 91 octane doesn’t contain ethanol so I would think the excise effect over all would be small.

It was a 91 E10 product the last time I purchased it in Auckland (which was earlier in the year). Has it changed since then?

Gull 91 contains no Ethanol, Unless you are taking the mickey meaning their 98 is 91 + E10 lol..

It would seem they certainly do sell 91 E10 but only in some areas (or at least they did in December 2017 when this was written) - https://www.aa.co.nz/membership/aa-directions/driver/fuel-duel-mineral-fuels-vs-bio-blends/

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