Second hand EVs worth it?

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#3416694 20-Sep-2025 13:20

CJT:

"Nothing can go wrong with them" is actually a pretty good pitch to go for a 2nd hand long range EV. My issue with buying a new EV in NZ at the moment is the pace at which next gen battery tech (more range, faster charging) is being introduced to existing models in China which will find its way here. Most new PHEV's pretty much use the gas motor as generator for the battery, yes higher maintenance costs but also cheaper upfront prices. PHEV's will take care of most daily commutes on pure EV, you can granny charge back up to 100% each night, and you have the advantage of reduced range anxiety/needing to spend 20+ minutes at a charging station if you do long weekend trips. Tough call though.

You should have a look at how well the older Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's are doing. Especially the older version with only 13.8kWh battery.

Most PHEV's have small batteries, which means that when you have some degradation of the battery you will go from being able to use it on battery all the time, to only being able to use the battery from time to time. And when that happens you are lugging around a battery that is actually causing you to use more petrol than a regular hybrid version of the same car would use.

Charging to 100% each day on a NMC battery is also going to make sure you degrade the battery quicker than if you could keep it within 80% charge most of the time.

I have also seen mention of the Outlander running on the petrol engine when you start driving if the temperature is under 10C.

My opinion is that PHEVs are in the market mostly to cater to people believing in the myth of the limited range of EVs, the strange perception that you need 1000KM of range, and for the car manufacturers to get their on paper CO2 emissions down.

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RunningMan

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#3416695 20-Sep-2025 13:24

CJT:[snip] and you have the advantage of reduced range anxiety

With pretty much any modern EV produced in the last few years I can't believe people still think this is a problem. Range simply hasn't been an issue for years now. 10 years ago, degraded Nissan LEAF battery and DC chargers spaced slightly further apart than your range, sure that's a reason to get anxious, but that simply isn't the case any more.

Do you have to have a slightly different approach to making sure the vehicle is ready to use? Sure, just plug it in over night - means you never have to detour to a service station again, saving time and effort.

Assuming of course there is a generic vehicle style that suits your needs. Utes are an obvious example where there's still not a lot to choose from, but cars, some trucks, vans, SUVs, mopeds and even some motorbike styles are covered fairly well.

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#3416700 20-Sep-2025 13:48

For me 100km is more than enough for a day of shopping. One or more or the places I go has free charging and I usually get lucky with a spot. In the odd case I've decided to add 10 to 100km at a paid station during a trip for something extra. It's a good time to catch up on email and phone calls anyway.

Other than that the antidote to range anxiety is some awareness of likely journey kms anyone can get from a glance at Google maps.

After some experience it's second nature. If the cars asked "Where are you going today? and said "Not a problem let's go!" that would be simple.

michaelmurfy

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#3416701 20-Sep-2025 13:48

@CJT honestly, range anxiety exists more with internal combustion than EV’s. With an EV you know the exact percentage of battery remaining along with a very good indication of range.

I have to use public charging a handful of times per year, not all the time.

Lastly, the battery state of health on my Tesla Model 3 Long Range (with a NCA battery) is 96% after 78,448km of driving and also lots of long trips where rapid charging was used. The battery concern is seriously not a thing unless if you’re going for a cheap Nissan Leaf.

Sure, cheaper upfront costs with a PHEV but much higher ongoing costs with maintenance and fuel meaning you’ll end up spending more in the long term.

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#3416703 20-Sep-2025 14:13

As for the range anxiety argument, some people just don't realise how far you can go with a given range.

The image below shows where I could realistically drive based on the charge my car currently has. It's taken into account my driving style, and the efficiency of the vehicle, which is the lower km value against the theoretical one if I was to drive with efficiency more in mind.

This is on a 2023 60kWH Model 3 RWD.

This info is provided by Tessie (a third-party entity to Tesla).

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#3416707 20-Sep-2025 14:47

If range anxiety isn't a thing, why are people buying Long range variants? i don't think battery degradation is too much of a concern with the LFP models the OP is looking at.

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michaelmurfy

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#3416709 20-Sep-2025 15:01

@CJT for me, it was mid range between getting a performance vehicle and the RWD. I get supercar like acceleration and 4 wheel drive for quite a bit less than the performance model. I could do totally fine with the RWD.

Wife’s car is a GWM Ora and when that has plenty of range.

Range Anxiety really doesn’t exist with EV’s.

RunningMan

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#3416710 20-Sep-2025 15:10

CJT:

If range anxiety isn't a thing, why are people buying Long range variants?

Probably because they are buying into outdated and generally irrelevant hype that keeps getting perpetuated by people without the experience of using an EV daily.

Another possible reason is reducing battery wear. A larger capacity battery goes through fewer charge/discharge cycles for a given distance covered, and also discharges slower, creating less heat internally. Vehicles such as the Mitsi Outlander with a tiny battery having to move a big heavy vehicle and going through one (or even more) complete cycles every single day - degradation is going to be proportionally quicker.

Don't get me wrong, there are genuine use cases for really high capacity/long range models but that's typically covering very long distances in areas with very sparse charger placement - think isolated areas of Australia etc. NZ isn't really like that for the most part any more.

Jase2985

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#3416711 20-Sep-2025 15:13

michaelmurfy:

IMO Range Anxiety really doesn’t exist with EV’s.

Fixed it for you, it certainly does.

And for some people, they don't want to stop every 2-3h for more than a toilet stop and in an EV going long distances that just doesn't work, nor does having to wait round for it to charge.

I'm all for EV's, I own one, it's our everyday car and our town car, but we can't do long trips in it, it just doesn't work as it doesn't have the range, and we don't have the means to get something with more range at this time. Ive tried a longer trip in it before but it just isn't worth the hassle again.

Currently, they are not for everyone and until they have 6-700km real world range and circa 5 minute charging they likely won't be for a lot of others.

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#3416712 20-Sep-2025 15:14

CJT:

If range anxiety isn't a thing, why are people buying Long range variants? i don't think battery degradation is too much of a concern with the LFP models the OP is looking at.

it DEFINITELY is a thing. it depends on the charging infrastructure where you are driving. in most of the South Island there is one 50kW charger every 200km. that's it. and those who don't live here don't know that it's Very hilly, Very windy (wind), Very rainy, Very cold ...

we also have another anxiety - charger anxiety. sometimes the charger is faulty or taken ...

re long range variants, only buy long range variants! lol.

BMW iX3 is getting launched in a few years with 800km WLTP & 110kWh battery ...

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#3416714 20-Sep-2025 15:17

CJT: If range anxiety isn't a thing, why are people buying Long range variants? i don't think battery degradation is too much of a concern with the LFP models the OP is looking at.

Unless you're driving long distance for the most part it's just convenience. Imo 400-500km is the sweet spot for average NZ tikitouring and charger availability.

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michaelmurfy

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#3416768 20-Sep-2025 16:34

Jase2985:

michaelmurfy:

IMO Range Anxiety really doesn’t exist with EV’s.

Fixed it for you, it certainly does.

No, it’s not really a IMO at all.

IMO range anxiety exists with all vehicles. It’s easier to get electricity than it is to get fuel in some rural locations. Having being caught in a location with a closed fuel station and no other fuel around I would say the anxiety exists more with ICE than it does with EV’s - that’s why I also mentioned it depends on the EV.

Agree with your other statement though - they’re not for everyone especially when you don’t have any way of charging at home.

But range anxiety really isn’t a thing with the majority of modern EV’s out there today and infrastructure has got a hell of a lot better over the years. Considering the average person travels 50km per day I think your statements actually apply for a rather small subset of people…

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#3416769 20-Sep-2025 16:41

michaelmurfy: It’s easier to get electricity than it is to get fuel in some rural locations.

I'm offtopic but that's a great point. As more agricultural equipment goes electric that's a big advantage.

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#3416770 20-Sep-2025 16:49

"IMO range anxiety exists with all vehicles". That's right and as you get more familiar with your vehicle, monitoring, familiarity with the charging network, comfortable waiting at chargers, and planning your trips then your range anxiety reduces accordingly. In other EV news Zeekr 7x is launching in NZ!

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#3416774 20-Sep-2025 17:13

michaelmurfy:

But range anxiety really isn’t a thing with the majority of modern EV’s out there today and infrastructure has got a hell of a lot better over the years. Considering the average person travels 50km per day I think your statements actually apply for a rather small subset of people…

There are still massive gaps in charging infrastructure round NZ, and it makes it difficult for some routes or destinations, look at the south island, lose a charger, and it puts a lot more stress on the other ones or makes it hard to get to the next one due to the distance.

We are not talking about averages here, we are talking about the <5% of cases. A Nissan Leaf would suit everyone if that were the case. But people want the flexibility to go somewhere on a whim and not worrying about having to charge. its a little different to just popping into the pump for 5 mins to fuel up, it's usually a double-digit hit to your time if you need to charge if you are caught short.

Longer ranged EV's also come with a higher purchase price, not everyone can afford $40k+ for an EV with substantial range.

Our EV works for us as it does a 75km daily round trip to work, and then errands and after school stuff for the kids. We can park it in the garage and charge it overnight on cheap power.

At the end of the day we are all different and what works for you, may not or doesn't work for me or hundreds of thousands of others in this country

CJT:

"IMO range anxiety exists with all vehicles". That's right and as you get more familiar with your vehicle, monitoring, familiarity with the charging network, comfortable waiting at chargers, and planning your trips then your range anxiety reduces accordingly. In other EV news Zeekr 7x is launching in NZ!

You generally don't have a plan a trip in an ICE vehicle, all you do is know where you are going and stop as needed for gas or the restroom. You don't need to plan in a 35-minute stop at xyz for 56% charge so you can make it to abc.

How often have you had to wait for a petrol pump?

It's more work planning, and it takes more time to go on a long trip in an EV, you can't argue that.

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