How fuel efficient are cars such as Prius in real world driving compared to other cars?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › How fuel efficient are cars such as Prius in real world driving compared to other cars?

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RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#1784336 18-May-2017 16:17

frednz:

So, when do you think Nissan will starting selling new Leafs again, some of the above would put me off buying a second-hand Leaf!

And, if the battery of a Leaf needs replacing, are these available in NZ and what would they cost to buy and install?

....

I do not know Nissan NZ's plans for the future. Threre are at least 3 second hand packs from wrecked Leafs in New Zealand right now. If you plan to buy Leaf - aim for GEN 2 and perhaps from UK as you will get English AV unit, but still no GPS for New Zealand. Unit is integrated with power train, hence changing it for something else is not a good idea.

I had very technical conversation with couple of hybrid battery rebuilders from Australia lately (from different regions). They shared some stats about new battery failures in hybrids over there in AU in particular with Z30 Prius (>2010) and 50 Series Camry (>2013). Those are all used by Taxi over there.

Climate (hotter than here) is major contributor (I think) to battery longevity (another example - in Shri Lanka where it is also hot, they say batteries in hybrids and Leafs degrade quicker).

So Camry Hybrid series 50 in different territories in AU - new battery lasts ~ 250000km and less going up north where it is hotter.

Stats from other countries (also from battery rebuilders) also suggest influence of terrain onto premature hybrid battery failure. e.g. in mountain area in USA battery longevity is shorter than elsewhere.

In New Zealand the North Island climate is in favor of hybrid (and Li) batteries, but if you drive hybrid (or EV) somewhere in mountain area or down south - that could have its impact.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1784359 18-May-2017 17:15

I asked my dad who drives a 5.5l V8
He gets around 15.0L/100km!! (He also drives like a manic)
So more than triple the annual cost for fuel of a Prius.
But I don't think he bought it for fuel efficiency!
(Drives about 10,000 kms per year)

KiwiME

214 posts

Master Geek

#1784756 19-May-2017 14:35

The whole point of Toyota's HSD is to exploit to the maximum the engine's fuel efficiency envelope, which includes the significant advantage of power buffering (via the battery) at low speeds. The HSD is so effective at that (being continuously variable) they can afford to compromise the torque spread of the engine in return for better peak efficiency by using the (slightly-mickey-mouse) Miller cycle.

In return for higher low-speed transmission losses (due to power conversion), at around 100kph losses are at a minimum, about where wind resistance becomes significant.

It's a clear winner in fuel economy terms compared with conventional petrol-powered cars, otherwise Toyota clearly would not have bothered.

It's just unfortunate that Toyota have not allowed royalty-free use of the technology, especially as it's kind of an obvious idea and why they had to fight off a similar predated patented marine application.

Toyota have done a great job with the engineering with every subsequent revision. If you study the technical papers there is amazing attention paid to minimising losses wherever possible.

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1784812 19-May-2017 16:22

KiwiME:

The whole point of Toyota's HSD is to exploit to the maximum the engine's fuel efficiency envelope, which includes the significant advantage of power buffering (via the battery) at low speeds. The HSD is so effective at that (being continuously variable) they can afford to compromise the torque spread of the engine in return for better peak efficiency by using the (slightly-mickey-mouse) Miller cycle.

In return for higher low-speed transmission losses (due to power conversion), at around 100kph losses are at a minimum, about where wind resistance becomes significant.

It's a clear winner in fuel economy terms compared with conventional petrol-powered cars, otherwise Toyota clearly would not have bothered.

It's just unfortunate that Toyota have not allowed royalty-free use of the technology, especially as it's kind of an obvious idea and why they had to fight off a similar predated patented marine application.

Toyota have done a great job with the engineering with every subsequent revision. If you study the technical papers there is amazing attention paid to minimising losses wherever possible.

It's also a pity that Toyota NZ don't sell new PHEV . They make a big thing on their web page that all HEVs sold in NZ don't need a plug.

Regards,

Old3eyes

JoshWright

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1784898 19-May-2017 18:00

Toyota NZ have recently started officially importing PHEV Priuses, replacing some JDM parts to make them NZ Spec and reselling them under their Signature Class brand.

old3eyes:

KiwiME:

The whole point of Toyota's HSD is to exploit to the maximum the engine's fuel efficiency envelope, which includes the significant advantage of power buffering (via the battery) at low speeds. The HSD is so effective at that (being continuously variable) they can afford to compromise the torque spread of the engine in return for better peak efficiency by using the (slightly-mickey-mouse) Miller cycle.

In return for higher low-speed transmission losses (due to power conversion), at around 100kph losses are at a minimum, about where wind resistance becomes significant.

It's a clear winner in fuel economy terms compared with conventional petrol-powered cars, otherwise Toyota clearly would not have bothered.

It's just unfortunate that Toyota have not allowed royalty-free use of the technology, especially as it's kind of an obvious idea and why they had to fight off a similar predated patented marine application.

Toyota have done a great job with the engineering with every subsequent revision. If you study the technical papers there is amazing attention paid to minimising losses wherever possible.

It's also a pity that Toyota NZ don't sell new PHEV . They make a big thing on their web page that all HEVs sold in NZ don't need a plug.

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1785001 20-May-2017 08:24

JoshWright:

Toyota NZ have recently started officially importing PHEV Priuses, replacing some JDM parts to make them NZ Spec and reselling them under their Signature Class brand.

old3eyes:

It's also a pity that Toyota NZ don't sell new PHEV . They make a big thing on their web page that all HEVs sold in NZ don't need a plug.

I have seen them in the past but this is the only one I can see on their website

2014 Toyota Prius PHV Plug In Hybrid for $36 grand

Regards,

Old3eyes

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