New Hamilton – Auckland commuter train to begin in August

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bmt

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#2438028 14-Mar-2020 15:48

This train is taken from Greater Auckland's proposed Regional Rapid Rail from 2017.

https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2017/08/17/introducing-regional-rapid-rail/

Given people prefer to read a news article and form an immovable opinion on things like this I'd be surprised if the anti people here bother to read it, but I'll summarise below:

The concept for Stage 1 is to quickly deliver an affordable ‘start up’ intercity service between Auckland, Hamilton and Tauranga using existing trains from the current fleet, running on the existing network.

Stage 1 is a short term interim step, with an intended operating life of five years. The main purpose is to build ridership and confirm the viability of the regional rail concept, while significant investment in new fleet and infrastructure upgrades (Stage 2) is underway.

The strategic concept for Regional Rapid Rail Stage 2 is to invest in new higher-speed, dual-mode tilting trains and supporting track upgrades to achieve the maximum utilisation of the existing upper North Island rail network for intercity passenger services. Stage 2 represents a significant investment programme to significantly improve train speeds, capacity and operational performance and achieve a step-change in ridership.

A step change in fast, sustainable inter-city land transport is required to integrate the economies of the cities and towns of the Upper North Island. Consistent travel times of less than 90 minutes between Hamilton and Auckland and less than 60 minutes between Hamilton and Tauranga will result in over half the population of New Zealand being linked together into a single economic entity. The regular and frequent service schedule running all-day, seven days a week would support a robust and sustainable economy, providing for a range of trip purposes and serving commuters, tourists, students and residents alike.

eracode

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#2438042 14-Mar-2020 16:18

Slightly OT but related. Saw a story recently that as part of the Auckland City Rail Link project, Mt Eden railway station is going to be closed for four years. Four years.

IANAEngineer but that is just frickin’ unbelievable. This is a small, pass-through suburban station. OK it needs to be double-tracked but it’s not like they’re building the Hoover Dam. The inefficiency and glacial pace of civil engineering and infrastructure projects in NZ is staggering. In most places in the world this would be done in a fraction of the time.

Imagine this sort of speed when applied to something like straightening and tilting the track between Hamilton and Auckland. And don’t even think of the upgrading of the track between Auckland and the new port in Whangarei.

https://www.cityraillink.co.nz/mt-eden-train-station-closure-crl

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bmt

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#2438166 14-Mar-2020 18:25

Think you should have just left it at IANAEnginer mate.

Trains will still pass through, Grafton station is less than 1km away as the crow flies, Kingsland station is less than 1.5km away. Plenty of busses passing through those areas. Yes a PITA, Mt Eden is my closest station and about 8min walk away but its not the end of the world.

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#2438180 14-Mar-2020 18:42

bmt:

Think you should have just left it at IANAEnginer mate.

Trains will still pass through, Grafton station is less than 1km away as the crow flies, Kingsland station is less than 1.5km away. Plenty of busses passing through those areas. Yes a PITA, Mt Eden is my closest station and about 8min walk away but its not the end of the world.

All well and good for you but you completely missed my point, mate. Four years for a job of this type and scale?

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#2438193 14-Mar-2020 18:58

Even Puhinui station is (if I recall correctly) only supposed to take about 16 months.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

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bmt

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#2438562 15-Mar-2020 13:24

eracode:

bmt:

Think you should have just left it at IANAEnginer mate.

Trains will still pass through, Grafton station is less than 1km away as the crow flies, Kingsland station is less than 1.5km away. Plenty of busses passing through those areas. Yes a PITA, Mt Eden is my closest station and about 8min walk away but its not the end of the world.

All well and good for you but you completely missed my point, mate. Four years for a job of this type and scale?

You said it yourself, you are not an engineer so your observations of how long the project takes are as valid as me or any other taxpayer. I don't think its excessive, therefore my opinion cancels yours out and the universe is once again in equilibrium.

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#2438571 15-Mar-2020 13:47

I think 4 years is a ridiculously long time for Mt Eden station to be closed.

We sure seem to be experts in making some jobs last forever.

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bmt

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#2443140 21-Mar-2020 16:22

Why do you think it is a long time?

DanielEyre

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#2446198 25-Mar-2020 12:40

The new Hamilton – Auckland passenger train will start running on 3 August

While I support a Hamilton-Auckland commuter train in principle; I have a bad feeling about this.

For starters; while it's advertised as "Frankton to Auckland"; it's really "Frankton to Papakura". So people wanting to go further than Papakura (which it's safe to assume will be most of them) will be forced to transfer to an Auckland Transport Electric Multiple unit service at Papakura station (and possibly pay another fare) fighting their way into the already crowded peak services on the Southern line. That doesn't seem like any attractive prospect to me. Papakura doesn't have great shelter facilities for those rainy days and doesn't have great facilities full stop nor convenient proximity to the Papakura town centre in case there's any big delays or breakdown in services. It probably shouldn't run if it can't continue an express service to major stops like (the future) Puhinui, Otahuhu, Penrose and Newmarket (or at least; until it can).

Technofreak

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#2446306 25-Mar-2020 14:15

DanielEyre:

The new Hamilton – Auckland passenger train will start running on 3 August

While I support a Hamilton-Auckland commuter train in principle; I have a bad feeling about this.

For starters; while it's advertised as "Frankton to Auckland"; it's really "Frankton to Papakura". So people wanting to go further than Papakura (which it's safe to assume will be most of them) will be forced to transfer to an Auckland Transport Electric Multiple unit service at Papakura station (and possibly pay another fare) fighting their way into the already crowded peak services on the Southern line. That doesn't seem like any attractive prospect to me. Papakura doesn't have great shelter facilities for those rainy days and doesn't have great facilities full stop nor convenient proximity to the Papakura town centre in case there's any big delays or breakdown in services. It probably shouldn't run if it can't continue an express service to major stops like (the future) Puhinui, Otahuhu, Penrose and Newmarket (or at least; until it can).

I agree. This has all the hallmarks of a quick and dirty solution so that the government, come election time, can boast this as one of their achievements. My impressions on this are based on the "Junk Mail" that was left in our letter box yesterday from the local Labour list MP, which included this very project as one of the governments "investments" in the Waikato listing it as "150 passenger capacity for new rail to and from Auckland".

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DanielEyre

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#2446309 25-Mar-2020 14:19

Technofreak:

DanielEyre:

While I support a Hamilton-Auckland commuter train in principle; I have a bad feeling about this.

For starters; while it's advertised as "Frankton to Auckland"; it's really "Frankton to Papakura". So people wanting to go further than Papakura (which it's safe to assume will be most of them) will be forced to transfer to an Auckland Transport Electric Multiple unit service at Papakura station (and possibly pay another fare) fighting their way into the already crowded peak services on the Southern line. That doesn't seem like any attractive prospect to me. Papakura doesn't have great shelter facilities for those rainy days and doesn't have great facilities full stop nor convenient proximity to the Papakura town centre in case there's any big delays or breakdown in services. It probably shouldn't run if it can't continue an express service to major stops like (the future) Puhinui, Otahuhu, Penrose and Newmarket (or at least; until it can).

I agree. This has all the hallmarks of a quick and dirty solution so that the government, come election time, can boast this as one of their achievements. My impressions on this are based on the "Junk Mail" that was left in our letter box yesterday from the local Labour list MP, which included this very project as one of the governments "investments" in the Waikato listing it as "150 passenger capacity for new rail to and from Auckland".

Secondly; it's advertised "88 minutes from Frankton to Auckland" is misleading because, once again, it's really "88 minutes from Frankton to Papakura". So on top of that 88 minutes (with no delays); you then have to wait for the transferring service and then its transit time. This could well be in excess of 2 hours and that's likely to take longer than driving or taking a coach. Not only is this more reason to extend it as an express service with its the terminus beyond Papakura, but it also needs to drop Huntly station. Because Huntly lost its proper station during the Toll holdings era and it's pathetic replacement platform & shelter is on a loop with only 25km/h speed and which northward services will have to cross the busy southward main during peak times to access. This will add at least 5 minutes to the northbound service every morning. I know Huntly won't like it but it's better to drop it from the Itinerary until some time in the future when building a proper station again can be justified.

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DanielEyre

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#2446314 25-Mar-2020 14:24

mudguard:

On another note, I wonder how feasible a subway system would be in Auckland?

I doubt Auckland will need a full metro for a long time yet with its urban form and population distribution.

However; there's a good case for upgrading the Northern Busway to a light metro line within the next few decades. So not a full "subway system" but one line....

DanielEyre

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#2446322 25-Mar-2020 14:36

2 hours and 20min! and leaving hamilton at 630am, what about the people who work in manufacturing,trades, factorys?these people start anywhere from 7am to 8am

In fairness; most of those jobs will be in South Auckland. And not all of them will be from Hamilton, I think the initial catchment is more likely to come from Mercer. So the transit time won't be as long as 140 minutes for them.

If could possibly work only with high speed bullet train, double tracking and regular timetable, the cost which hardly matters, private enterprise would be involved, just like the toll bridges/ tunnels we have now.

No offence; but don't be silly!

This could "work" by just being done properly.

Waiting until the third main is finished and allowing the service to run as an express service to major stations beyond Papakura.
While still running to Frankton, Te Rapa and Ngaruawahia: Initially focussing on the very northern Waikato first. In particular the corridor between Pukekohe and Mercer with the first big investment being stations reestablished at Pokeno, Tuakau and Buckland. When that's established; start focussing incrementally southward like a station near Meremere, a station reestablished at Te Kauwhata, etc.
Gradually investing on curve easements on the existing corridor allowing faster line running. It's only about ~140km of rail line between Frankton and Auckland, if the train can run at +100km/h for most of the journey; it should do the trip in more than enough time.

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#2446464 25-Mar-2020 16:33

DanielEyre:

mudguard:

On another note, I wonder how feasible a subway system would be in Auckland?

I doubt Auckland will need a full metro for a long time yet with its urban form and population distribution.

However; there's a good case for upgrading the Northern Busway to a light metro line within the next few decades. So not a full "subway system" but one line....

A subway system like New York is not a full system and only runs underground in the CBD then exits to the surface elevated system.

Regards,

Old3eyes

DanielEyre

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#2446587 25-Mar-2020 19:16

old3eyes:

DanielEyre:

I doubt Auckland will need a full metro for a long time yet with its urban form and population distribution.

However; there's a good case for upgrading the Northern Busway to a light metro line within the next few decades. So not a full "subway system" but one line....

A subway system like New York is not a full system and only runs underground in the CBD then exits to the surface elevated system.

I don't know of any metro system in the world that runs entirely subterranean. I don't even know of many individual metro lines that are completely subterranean. There's the one Victoria line on the London Underground but I can't think of any more off of the top of my head.

I mean for the ends of the lines that run in lower-density suburbs; why would you continue running them underground?

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