Owning a more expensive car

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Mad Scientist
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#2665962 1-Mar-2021 06:47

jonb: Thanks for the feedback, it seems like if choose wisely the TOC is about the same with a newer car, after the initial cost, with all the benefits of a modern car and being able to explore NZ more. As well getting up to ski field on a powder day, would be great to start 4x4 on easier tracks like e.g. Mt Bathans track and get to out of the way huts for tramping start points.
The Mercury scheme is hard sell for someone from a cheap car background, for like 10k a year would be well more than current car cost.

if you want a soft roader get a subaru with FA/FB engine. they are fulltime 4wd. cheap as to run.

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#2665964 1-Mar-2021 07:04

Batman:

jonb: Thanks for the feedback, it seems like if choose wisely the TOC is about the same with a newer car, after the initial cost, with all the benefits of a modern car and being able to explore NZ more. As well getting up to ski field on a powder day, would be great to start 4x4 on easier tracks like e.g. Mt Bathans track and get to out of the way huts for tramping start points.
The Mercury scheme is hard sell for someone from a cheap car background, for like 10k a year would be well more than current car cost.

if you want a soft roader get a subaru with FA/FB engine. they are fulltime 4wd. cheap as to run.

most popular one is the outback.

there is one downside however ... and it's spelt cvt.

but you can't have everything ...

If it doesn't have low range it's not a 4WD and not suitable for going onto 4WD tracks. Fine for going to the snow but if you want go on anything serious you're stuck very fast.

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#2665979 1-Mar-2021 08:01

Scott3:

jonb: Thanks for the feedback, it seems like if choose wisely the TOC is about the same with a newer car, after the initial cost, with all the benefits of a modern car and being able to explore NZ more. As well getting up to ski field on a powder day, would be great to start 4x4 on easier tracks like e.g. Mt Bathans track and get to out of the way huts for tramping start points.
The Mercury scheme is hard sell for someone from a cheap car background, for like 10k a year would be well more than current car cost.

Even if running a 4x4 does cost more (on TCO basis), if it is something you want and can afford it will be worth it for you. Consider it a recreational expense rather than a transport one.

If you are going to do more than very basic offroading, you will also need to budget for:

Recovery points (frount & rear unless there is a tow hitch receiver)
A/T or M/T tires
Basic Recovery gear: Snatch strap (or better a kinetic snatch rope), Heavy Bow shackes, tow strap, tire deflator, recovery tracks, shovel
Compressor if you will be airing down a lot, and want to pump the tires up before hitting sealed roads, rather than waiting until the next gas station.
A CB if you will be doing club stuff (a good idea if it is your first off road experience)

If one is deflating driving to the next Service Station on tarmac is never an option one should take.Always inflate before driving on tarmac. Never over deflate and check tyre pressures regularly when driving on deflated tyres. Blowing a bead and shedding a tyre in the wilderness is bad doing it on tarmac at tarmac speed can be disastrous

Handle9

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#2665982 1-Mar-2021 08:10

You have to work very hard to blow a bead with moderately deflated tyres. If you're at 8psi sure but if you are running more typical mud ranges like 20-25 psi you're not taking a bead off at moderate speed.

It's always better to reinflate but if you have to deflate and don't have a compressor just take it slow and be sensible. You'll have impaired handling and braking so drive to the conditions.

jonb

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#2666027 1-Mar-2021 09:15

Think will get a Fortuner or something similar this time next year, spend the meantime getting some equipment and knowledge. Fortuner was a great suggestion thanks, is kind like a modern Hilux Surf.

Scott3

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#2666284 1-Mar-2021 14:56

MikeB4:

If one is deflating driving to the next Service Station on tarmac is never an option one should take.Always inflate before driving on tarmac. Never over deflate and check tyre pressures regularly when driving on deflated tyres. Blowing a bead and shedding a tyre in the wilderness is bad doing it on tarmac at tarmac speed can be disastrous

There is a difference in airing down from say 36psi to 25psi, and airing down to single digits. As long as one is mindful of the worsened handling, and keeps their top speed down, running 70% of normal pressure until the next gas station isn't a huge concern.

Of course dropping to single digits is a bit different, but that should only really be done if there arn't other options, and if one has the means to air up again onboard.

That said, an entry level 4x4 tire inflatior can be had for cira $140, so it's not like it is a crippling expense.

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#2666325 1-Mar-2021 16:12

jonb: Think will get a Fortuner or something similar this time next year, spend the meantime getting some equipment and knowledge. Fortuner was a great suggestion thanks, is kind like a modern Hilux Surf.

Cheers.

Family members have one in the Philippines. (2wd & with a smaller engine than is offered here - In this market they push the highlander instead to those who don't want low range 4x4).

You are correct that it has has replaced the Hilux surf as Toyota's hilux based SUV.

I suggested it because it is Toyota's cheapest low range SUV, and in general Toyota's sometimes have lower depreciation than other brands.

Of course there are a number of similar ute based suv offering from other suv's. MU-Z, Pajero Sport, Everest, LDV V90...

The Fortuner is a nice vehicle. Pritty much a hilux with shortened wheelbase (tighter turning & better ramp over angle), a coil sprung rear end, and a boot instead of a tray. Low range part time 4x4, with a rear diff locker from the factory make it quite a capable offering. Also it uses the same engine as the prado despite being 300kg or so lighter, so will be faster. The air con is really powerful too.

Downsides are that it is very ute like. Poor refinement (noise and vibration), fairly cramped interior compared to say the Highlander, no full time 4x4 (4x4 more strictly for low traction off road use only as there is no center differential). Also visibility behind kinda sucks as does the third row seating configuration (Strictly for kids, folds up and to the sides when not in use - There are guides on the internet of how to unbolt and remove for more luggage space if you don't need the third row.)

If a new shape Suzuki Jimny would meet your needs it would be an obvious pick, but is it a very small car.

If you are looking for a cheaper used Low Range 4x4, some good value can be had from the Suzuki Escudo or Suzuki Grand Vatara.

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MikeB4

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#2666328 1-Mar-2021 16:17

The new Suzuki Jimny is absolute great bang for buck if you are wanting to go off road. At $circa29,000 it is a good price for a beginner and to learn on. However be aware it is only a 4 seater, is a bit wobbly on tarmac and has a safety rating of 3 stars which is not good.

Little

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#2666341 1-Mar-2021 16:43

Scott3:

jonb: Think will get a Fortuner or something similar this time next year, spend the meantime getting some equipment and knowledge. Fortuner was a great suggestion thanks, is kind like a modern Hilux Surf.

Cheers.

Family members have one in the Philippines. (2wd & with a smaller engine than is offered here - In this market they push the highlander instead to those who don't want low range 4x4).

You are correct that it has has replaced the Hilux surf as Toyota's hilux based SUV.

I suggested it because it is Toyota's cheapest low range SUV, and in general Toyota's sometimes have lower depreciation than other brands.

Of course there are a number of similar ute based suv offering from other suv's. MU-Z, Pajero Sport, Everest, LDV V90...

The Fortuner is a nice vehicle. Pritty much a hilux with shortened wheelbase (tighter turning & better ramp over angle), a coil sprung rear end, and a boot instead of a tray. Low range part time 4x4, with a rear diff locker from the factory make it quite a capable offering. Also it uses the same engine as the prado despite being 300kg or so lighter, so will be faster. The air con is really powerful too.

Downsides are that it is very ute like. Poor refinement (noise and vibration), fairly cramped interior compared to say the Highlander, no full time 4x4 (4x4 more strictly for low traction off road use only as there is no center differential). Also visibility behind kinda sucks as does the third row seating configuration (Strictly for kids, folds up and to the sides when not in use - There are guides on the internet of how to unbolt and remove for more luggage space if you don't need the third row.)

If a new shape Suzuki Jimny would meet your needs it would be an obvious pick, but is it a very small car.

If you are looking for a cheaper used Low Range 4x4, some good value can be had from the Suzuki Escudo or Suzuki Grand Vatara.

Did exactly that with our Fortuner, took the 3rd row seats out. The extra power and torque is definitely noticeable compared to the older model.

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#2666343 1-Mar-2021 16:48

MikeB4:

The new Suzuki Jimny is absolute great bang for buck if you are wanting to go off road. At $circa29,000 it is a good price for a beginner and to learn on. However be aware it is only a 4 seater, is a bit wobbly on tarmac and has a safety rating of 3 stars which is not good.

Also there's a long wait list for new ones, very few used ones - and they're at +/- new price anyway. Review sites imply that you *must* get the 5 speed if you want to use it for serious 4WD, but from my test drive, I don't think I'd be prepared to put up with the very noisy gearbox (whine loudly in all forward gears - there's a remote chance that might diminish over time) and a gear shift action that has all the feel and precision of trying to stir a bucket full of cricket balls with a half metre length of damp spaghetti. If most of your driving is going to be on-road, the 5 speed will probably drive you nuts around town, the auto (4 speed slush box?) may drive you nuts on the open road because you'll probably struggle to pass old Holdens and step-throughs.

The dealer told me that the gearbox noise etc on their demonstrator was normal. Note - I didn't "hate it", just disappointed it wasn't better on the road - the "wobblyness on tarmac" actually not an issue, that seemed fine for what it is.

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#2666346 1-Mar-2021 16:53

Fred99:

Also there's a long wait list for new ones, very few used ones - and they're at +/- new price anyway. Review sites imply that you *must* get the 5 speed if you want to use it for serious 4WD, but from my test drive, I don't think I'd be prepared to put up with the very noisy gearbox (whine loudly in all forward gears - there's a remote chance that might diminish over time) and a gear shift action that has all the feel and precision of trying to stir a bucket full of cricket balls with a half metre length of damp spaghetti. If most of your driving is going to be on-road, the 5 speed will probably drive you nuts around town, the auto (4 speed slush box?) may drive you nuts on the open road because you'll probably struggle to pass old Holdens and step-throughs.

The dealer told me that the gearbox noise etc on their demonstrator was normal. Note - I didn't "hate it", just disappointed it wasn't better on the road - the "wobblyness on tarmac" actually not an issue, that seemed fine for what it is.

Don't get me wrong I love the little Jimny but one has to be aware of what it is. As for supply I am not sure what that will be going forward with the issues of supply these to the European/UK market.

If available when we replace our caravan with a Motorhome we will get one to hook up to the Motorhome.

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#2666355 1-Mar-2021 17:12

jonb: Think will get a Fortuner or something similar this time next year, spend the meantime getting some equipment and knowledge. Fortuner was a great suggestion thanks, is kind like a modern Hilux Surf.

If you are looking at Fortuner look at Pajero as well. It's old but very difficult to beat from a value perspective. It's a very mature transmission and engine package and doesn't have the DPF problems that Toyota claim to have solved now.

The third row seat well is a great place to store your compressor, recovery kit, tarp and spade.

Fred99

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#2666369 1-Mar-2021 17:51

MikeB4:

If available when we replace our caravan with a Motorhome we will get one to hook up to the Motorhome.

You'll need to check if they're able to be flat towed. I don't think they are without modification (a "dog clutch" fitted to disengage the drive shaft from the transfer case - that link indicates the same does apply for the new model

You'll have fun reversing in tight spots.

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#2666383 1-Mar-2021 18:29

Handle9:

If it doesn't have low range it's not a 4WD and not suitable for going onto 4WD tracks. Fine for going to the snow but if you want go on anything serious you're stuck very fast.

sure if you need low range and you don't have low range then you're toast. if you need ground clearance and you don't have ground clearance then you're toast.

but i say a triple lock (at least a double lock diff - center and rear) is even more important. (see video below. these fellas probably only has a center diff lock and open diffs at both axles)

that's why the subarus are called soft roaders. but does the subaru 4wd work? well ... maybe watch this

ilovemusic

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#2666385 1-Mar-2021 18:44

Item:

I just accept that a car is always going to be a depreciating asset (unless you get very lucky and buy something which becomes a future “classic” - unlikely around the $30k price point) and see that depreciation as the price you pay for buying something “nice”.

used car prices have gone nuts lately.

covid, americans snapping up anything over 25years old.

plenty of jdm modern classics eg. honda civic/integra type r, impreza sti etc. at the $30k mark are all on the up.

then you get the opportunists trying to sell modern cars they bought a year ago with half the mileage, now asking what they paid +$10k

lol

eg. this 2018 Civic Type R was $48k with 12,000km last year

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/honda/listing/2959496253?bof=R5IGdnWE

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