European Cars

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#731621 12-Dec-2012 21:23

Some of you are forgetting all the value adds that come with a new car.

Firstly, you're getting new tyres, new battery, new plugs, new brake pads, etc. The effective value of all that is probably around $1000 if you assume that these would all be half worn on a second hand car.

Secondly you're getting free roadside assistance. Five years of AA subs would set you back at least $500.

You're also getting a three or even five year warranty. How much does it cost you to buy mechanical insurance on your used car? $1500 or thereabouts?

A new car might potentially also give you less frequent warrant of fitness checks (depending on the outcome of the WOF review), free servicing as a sweetener in some cases, or the longer service intervals and better fuel economy that goes along with the latest engine designs.

I'm not saying that this makes up for the difference in depreciation costs between a new and used car, but the difference certainly isn't as great as some people think when you look at all the factors, and consider that new cars are cheaper than they've ever been.

I agree that buying second hand makes better economic sense if you're going to keep the vehicle for less than three years, but once you start approaching five years of ownership the depreciation averages out to a far more acceptable level.

mattwnz

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#731625 12-Dec-2012 21:39

martyyn:
This is exactly my point. I had a Peugeot 406 SRi in the UK and it was one of the best cars I've ever driven. You simply cant make generalisations on makes and models after having driven/owned one or two cars (and I appreaciate you appear to have owned more than one - thats just a general comment about other posts). However, you cant compare Italian built Fiat's to German built BMW's surely !

I didn't say anything about how well it was to drive. It was very nice to drive and comfortable, albeit underpowered. But that is really nothing when you face a huge bill down the track. At the end of the day it comes down to reliability and luck of the draw, as to what will go wrong. The dog and lemon guide actually listed all the problems I have had, and has been worth it's weight in gold to me. Probably saved me thousands of dollars.

Mine was also a 406, and it was a POC after 7 years and only got $7k for it, when new it was close to $50k. Everything started going wrong with it, and it was getting very expensive. $1000 just to fix the problems with the dashboard lights and speedo.

You did say that yours was when you were in the UK. It makes more sense buying a europeaon car if you live in the UK, because it is far cheaper to maintain then and get parts for them, as there are far more on the road over there and more people to service them. They are also a lot cheaper over there, so I would probably buy a european car if I lived over there. But not in NZ. Far more Asian imports.
Not sure on the reliability of german cars. Have a friend who had a new VW, and the clutch went on it after only a few years and it was a huge expense.

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#731626 12-Dec-2012 21:40

dickytim:
Technofreak:
TheUngeek: If you look at a mitsi, don't even think about anything pre 05. I'd rather have a french car

I know it's only the engine and the rest of the car may be very good, BUT, take a look at the next car that emits a bluish smoke as it accelerates away from the lights or intersection, one will get you ten that it's a Mitsi.

pretty much 10/10 of those will be poorly looked after GDI's !

BTW bluish smoke is usually over fueling rather than burnt oil, the white smoke it the real tell tail

It doesn't matter which model. It's blue smoke from burning oil, I know what I'm looking at, definitely not the black colour you get from over fueling.

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#731630 12-Dec-2012 21:44

alasta: Some of you are forgetting all the value adds that come with a new car.

Agree, especially if you can get over 20% off the RRP price, which I got on my last one, which you can sometimes get at the field days.

alasta:Secondly you're getting free roadside assistance. Five years of AA subs would set you back at least $500. You're also getting a three or even five year warranty. How much does it cost you to buy mechanical insurance on your used car? $1500 or thereabouts?

Useful, but not that important on a new car, as it shouldn't have problems. I had all those, but never used any of it. Helped though that it was a toyota. The reliability of a new car, and not having to take it to the garage and wasted time, are another saving.

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#731633 12-Dec-2012 21:57

mattwnz:
alasta:Secondly you're getting free roadside assistance. Five years of AA subs would set you back at least $500. You're also getting a three or even five year warranty. How much does it cost you to buy mechanical insurance on your used car? $1500 or thereabouts?

Useful, but not that important on a new car, as it shouldn't have problems. I had all those, but never used any of it. Helped though that it was a toyota.

I think most people these days use roadside assistance for things like lockouts and flat batteries, although modern cars have got some good features to protect against that sort of thing anyway. I haven't had to use roadside assistance for many years, but I would still pay for it if I had to because you still need the piece of mind for the unlikely event that you get stranded somewhere.

The reliability of a new car, and not having to take it to the garage and wasted time, are another saving.

Agreed - finding time to do things is the bain of my life these days. 20 years ago you used to have to expect one or two teething problems if you bought a new car, but these days the quality control is so good that you just drive it out of the showroom and don't think about it again.

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#731666 12-Dec-2012 22:58

lxsw20: I brought my Mazda 3 MPS a few months ago, its just over 3 years old has 40k on the clock and has just run out of warranty, it's still the latest shape. To buy that new would have cost me another 23k.....no thanks.

Sounds like you got a great deal. I presume it wasn't through a dealer, as I have found dealers second hand pricing on newish cars, isn't much better than new car pricing with a good cash discount. You can also often get good prices at the end of the financial year on new cars.

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hdinsider

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#731767 13-Dec-2012 08:34

Reliably of European made cars is a joke... Look at how many of them have broken indicators- they never seem to be working!

don't mess with me.... i'm the hd insider....

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#731822 13-Dec-2012 10:07

mattwnz: Sounds like you got a great deal. I presume it wasn't through a dealer, as I have found dealers second hand pricing on newish cars, isn't much better than new car pricing with a good cash discount. You can also often get good prices at the end of the financial year on new cars.

Got it from Haven Motors - Mazda dealership in Nelson and then had a pretty fun drive back to Dunedin :)

rayonline

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#731862 13-Dec-2012 10:32

We don't buy from dealers anymore due to warranty processes ...

We get from Turners, have gotten Japanese and VW and a Audi. Audi is my own not really used now the rego is on hold for 24 months abouts now ... We have a VW and a Toyoya Camry and we had a Mazda Familia (all from Turners). We haven't had much stuff to be repaired to be honest. The Audi we overlooked the aircon and that set us back about $1,200. The other stuff were just regular maintenance.

The Familia we sold, had for like 15yrs, from 1995, it was a 1992 model or 18yrs total. Never changed the trans oil, just the 6 monthly oil change and filter was changed every 12 months for much of the time. Some belts and lamps that's it, tyres of course. CV joints, and one muffler resolder (not replacement).

The Camry had for a few yrs about the same.

The VW Bora no maintenance whatsoever apart from oil and filter, we used the semi synthetic stuff (not fully) and Repco filter every 6 months. No tyres as of yet. Maybe a bulb or two. Had this maybe 2yrs. When we bought this it was maybe 6yrs used but compared to a 6yr used Toyota Echo the Toyota had a higher price. I think we paid $7k for it .. the Toyota went up to $9k.

The Audi, just the aircon, had that for like 3 or 4yrs.

The oil, I guess you could use cheaper oil non-synthetic and the filters are cheaper too, not much diff at Repco but if you go to the dealer yeah maybe 40% diff. You also need coolant that you cannot get from Repco - G12. Also some mechanics might not know and I heard they put normal coolant into Euro cars, for myself, the mechanic put normal $30 engine oil into an Audi LOL .... In the users manual they ask for a VW rating ... which seems to be the semi synthetic oil and up ....

The VW has a leak in the firewall place in front of the dash I guess in the engine compartment if we park up an incline. So we now park reverse. We took it to a Euro place that does these things. They wanted about $400 to evaluate the leak ... not sure how that stacks up with Japanese places ... was about $80/hour ...

Oubadah

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#731893 13-Dec-2012 11:00

Get a Jaguar X300. They're dirt cheap even here, and they represent the apex of reliability for Jaguar. They're beautiful cars.

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#731922 13-Dec-2012 11:25

Oubadah: Get a Jaguar X300. They're dirt cheap even here, and they represent the apex of reliability for Jaguar. They're beautiful cars.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, a reliable Jaguar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know of some horror stories with some of the gearboxes in the Ford era Jags, though to be fair I don't think the X300 was affected

The X300 is a beautiful car, the sound of the V12 is very very nice. I've always had a soft spot for the E Types.

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Oubadah

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#731965 13-Dec-2012 12:07

Technofreak:
Oubadah: Get a Jaguar X300. They're dirt cheap even here, and they represent the apex of reliability for Jaguar. They're beautiful cars.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, a reliable Jaguar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know of some horror stories with some of the gearboxes in the Ford era Jags, though to be fair I don't think the X300 was affected

The X300 is a beautiful car, the sound of the V12 is very very nice. I've always had a soft spot for the E Types.

I meant it without the slightest bit of sarcasm. The X300 was quite a feat for Jaguar, reaching the same levels of reliability as it's competition. It's not a "high maintenance" Jaguar - the X300 can suffer a certain amount of neglect. I'm talking about the 3.2 and 4.0L straight six cars, obviously the v12 X305 is a different matter.

X300 years were 1995/1996/1997, badges used were "XJ6", "XJ-Sport", "Sovereign", "Daimler Six", "Majestic" etc.

Well worth looking at.

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#732016 13-Dec-2012 13:29

hdinsider: Reliably of European made cars is a joke... Look at how many of them have broken indicators- they never seem to be working!

More likely the drivers. I have found this problem is universal:)

Peppery

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#732655 14-Dec-2012 16:43

I bought an Audi A4 (B7 2.0L turbo quattro s-line sedan) to replace my VW Golf mk4 a few months ago. European cars are definitely more expensive but there's something about them that I just love that much more than Japanese cars (my first car was a Honda Civic before getting the Golf. As far as reliability goes, the Golf was much more reliable than the Honda ever was. Admittedly the VW was 10 years newer but every month something else just went bad on the Civic. Ended up just giving the car away to family.

First service on the Audi though? $5,400. Not even mad though, I love the damn thing! (and I got it $17k under market valuation through a friend at the dealer) :)

mattwnz

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#732660 14-Dec-2012 16:55

Peppery: I bought an Audi A4 (B7 2.0L turbo quattro s-line sedan) to replace my VW Golf mk4 a few months ago. European cars are definitely more expensive but there's something about them that I just love that much more than Japanese cars (my first car was a Honda Civic before getting the Golf. As far as reliability goes, the Golf was much more reliable than the Honda ever was. Admittedly the VW was 10 years newer but every month something else just went bad on the Civic. Ended up just giving the car away to family.

First service on the Audi though? $5,400. Not even mad though, I love the damn thing! (and I got it $17k under market valuation through a friend at the dealer) :)

Geez, you could buy a new 2nd hand car for that service price? Audis are quite nice, but you are paying for the name. The Europeans make nice looking cars, but the japs make reliable ones. Just wish more joined forces so you got the best of both worlds.

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