Electric cars in bus lanes

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#1548737 9-May-2016 15:34

joker97: ....

First and overriding rule is safety to them.

......

As for the life saving paradigm vs safety - you just reminded me about Piha Resque - they are not checking if there any sharks in the water before saving the swimmer :-)

I myself would be concerned about safety if accident with EV had happened during heavy rain. I recently dismantled one EV and insulation of HV circuits looked OK for the dry roads but very much questionable if in accident and got wet.

gzt

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#1548746 9-May-2016 15:52

MikeAqua:
Public transport should still be preferable to EVs for the daily commute. If EVs add to congestion this will increase emissions from conventional vehicles, possibly offsetting the benefits of EVs.

With that in mind EVs shouldn't be in bus lanes or have unconditional access to car pool lanes or be provided free parking.

If govt want to incentivise EVs, they need to address new purchase price.

Using the Audi example: The EV costs $20k more $20k buys ~10,000L of petrol which would allow ~100,000km of travel i.e. 5 to 10 years motoring.

We don't have a sizeable tax from which to make EVs exempt. So govt needs to subsidise them in some way if they want to encourage uptake before the technology matures enoguh to become competitive.

Forget private consumers. Fleet purchases make up about three quarters of new vehicle sales in NZ.

What govt could do is firstly buy EVs itself and secondly support EV purchase via a company tax credit or extra depreciation allowance to remove the extra capital cost of an EV (which would flow through to leased cars). No-one is going to buy an EV instead of a ute or van, but they are a sensible replacement for small passenger vehicles.

Get fleets preferentially buying EVs and eventually a good chunk of consumers will have to buy EVs if they want near new vehicles.

gzt: I'm guessing a large proportion of [fleet] vehicles will have higher range requirements than the current generation of EV. I suspect it is too early for fleet replacement. On the positive side PHEV are a partial solution to that issue and require almost the same infrastructure as EV.

Edit: Then last on the list HEV shares a similar technology platform with both EV and PHEV. Imho HEV should not be dismissed entirely. It brings the economy of scale for many similar components and lifecycle. Additionally some have potential for aftermarket P upgrade.

MikeAqua: If that is true then pure EVs won't happen to any significant extent in NZ. Outside fleet purchases the new vehicle market is small ...

The proportion is just a guess on my part. The milage information is fairly easy to get and the question should be easy to study. I'm sure a small proportion could be easily replaced.

Note: edited 'solution' to 'partial solution' in original and added edit about HEV. Quoted same above for ease of carrying conversation to this page.

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#1548924 9-May-2016 22:01

No-one is going to buy an EV instead of a ute or van, but they are a sensible replacement for small passenger vehicles.

While there are not to my knowledge any production electric ute's worldwide (except the low volume Chevy S-10 electric from cira 1998), Small electric vans are readily available.

Nissan has there e-nv200 (there are already a few of these in NZ as used imports). It is basically a Nissan leaf drive train in their nv200 small van. It has a 770kg payload. The petrol variant of the nv200 is the new New York taxi, and the petrol vairent appears to be popular here as a used import for things like florists, and electricians who need more space than a car, but less than a iLoad/Hiace/Transit van.

Renault has their Renault Kangoo ZE which is soon to be launched in NZ. Air NZ has ordered a whole bunch of these.

MikeAqua:

If that is true then pure EVs won't happen to any significant extent in NZ. Outside fleet purchases the new vehicle market is small ...

gzt:
I'm guessing a large proportion of these vehicles will have higher range requirements than the current generation of EV. I suspect it is too early for fleet replacement. On the positive side PHEV are a solution that issue and require almost the same infrastructure as EV.

A lot of our vehicle fleet comes in a used imports. No reason why this would be any different for private electric car buyers. It's particularly sweet from countries where new electric vehicle subsidies depress the prices of used ones.

Linuxluver

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#1549327 10-May-2016 14:51

This EV van from Nissan (NV200) looks good.

http://www.env200.com/

Probably a Leaf with a box on it. :-)

Update: Actually available in NZ, too. http://www.autobase.co.nz/cars-for-sale/Nissan/e-NV200/Van/2520819.htm

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#1549330 10-May-2016 14:59

That site and TradeMe have around five BMW i3 for $50k. All of them under 10,000km.

MikeAqua

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#1549661 11-May-2016 09:49

As a light commercial vehicle would be OK for short runs with light loads.

Otherwise it's a toy.

170km per charge (doesn't say with how much load)

Linuxluver:

This EV van from Nissan (NV200) looks good.

http://www.env200.com/

Probably a Leaf with a box on it. :-)

Update: Actually available in NZ, too. http://www.autobase.co.nz/cars-for-sale/Nissan/e-NV200/Van/2520819.htm

Mike

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gzt

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#1549756 11-May-2016 11:31

These are not toys. There are a range of applications where these are perfect.

chris48

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#1549770 11-May-2016 11:51

.. and what constitutes an EV? Pur electric, like the Leaf? ... or the BMW with the emergency petrol engine? ... or the plugins with a few km range? .... or the various levels of hybrids?

Policing this would be a nightmare.

I agree that the only sensible approach is strategies that increase occupancy. Who's for a T4 in bus lanes?

gzt

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#1549780 11-May-2016 12:09

I posted info earlier. According to the MOT website the proposal is EV and PHEV.

gzt

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#1549785 11-May-2016 12:16

Germany just announced massive subsidy on EV and phev:

Overall, the €1bn government programme should subsidise 400,000 electric cars and boost the segment to the point where the e-car becomes “mass market capable”, said vice-chancellor and economy minister Sigmar Gabriel at the same press event.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/28/germany-subsidy-boost-electric-car-sales

More good news for our import market. Thanks Germany : ).

old3eyes

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#1549791 11-May-2016 12:24

gzt: Germany just announced massive subsidy on EV and phev:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/28/germany-subsidy-boost-electric-car-sales

More good news for our import market. Thanks Germany : ).

Most likely won't help as you'll spend another 10~ 20 grand for a LHD to RHD conversion when it arrive s here unless the Gov relaxes the rules..

Regards,

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gzt

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#1549795 11-May-2016 12:29

That is a really good point. Ok, well at least it will build volume and economies of scale manufacturing for the export market.

MikeAqua

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#1550876 11-May-2016 14:06

It's a toy in the sense it won't do the mid range work of a cargo van or ute.

Utes and vans are converging on 1 Tonne cargo or 2 - 3 Tonne tow.

That little van carries 0.7 T cargo, it wouldn't tow the skin off a rice pudding and it's somewhat range limited.

It no doubt has its niche applications like delivering small, light items short distances, particularly in urban settings when there is reasonable proportion of stationary time.

But it isn't a substitute for the vast majority of the light commercial fleet.

gzt: These are not toys. There are a range of applications where these are perfect.

Mike

wellygary

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#1550909 11-May-2016 14:40

gzt: Germany just announced massive subsidy on EV and phev:

Overall, the €1bn government programme should subsidise 400,000 electric cars and boost the segment to the point where the e-car becomes “mass market capable”, said vice-chancellor and economy minister Sigmar Gabriel at the same press event.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/28/germany-subsidy-boost-electric-car-sales

More good news for our import market. Thanks Germany : ).

This is just a government industry subsidy wrapped up in Green paper, The domestic German Car industry is in serious funk, last year the number of new cars sold in Germany was basically the same as they sold in 1990....

It will be really intersting to see how they are going to prevent the subsidy from bleeding across the border, as it y sets up the prospect of a nice little arbitrage profit for near border car dealers....

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#1550926 11-May-2016 14:54

MikeAqua:

As a light commercial vehicle would be OK for short runs with light loads.

Otherwise it's a toy.

170km per charge (doesn't say with how much load)

Linuxluver:

This EV van from Nissan (NV200) looks good.

http://www.env200.com/

Probably a Leaf with a box on it. :-)

Update: Actually available in NZ, too. http://www.autobase.co.nz/cars-for-sale/Nissan/e-NV200/Van/2520819.htm

I like toys.

In any case, let's say if a rich uncle gave me to use a Tesla Model S as a toy, and let's say my house is at the racetrack (ie no charge wasted travelling to the racetrack), how many laps would I be able to do (say the track was 3 miles long).

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