The debate over foreign drivers and testing

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902 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1251840 5-Mar-2015 17:27

joker97: well, it's a matter of time before society degrade into this

You've got to love it when the road rage instigator realizes he has picked on a gorilla wearing a man costume, and proceeds come _very_ unstuck. An awful lot of eastern Europeans in the video as well. Makes you glad you live in NZ.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

mattwnz

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#1251850 5-Mar-2015 17:44

I think the problem is that the government hasn't kept up with the influx of foreign drivers coming into NZ, so there isn't the infrstructure and education out there to deal with it. Rental companies also share part of the responsibility with this. In Australia I noticed that they had regular signs on the road that you must drive on the left side of the road.
I saw that car rental companies put a information tie onto the steering wheel of rentals, but that has to be the most stupid place to put it, as you have to remove it to drive the car, so most people will rip it off and bin it.

I think until the government sorts this problem out, people should think twice about driving in these higher tourist areas until they have. My dad got stuck behind a tourist driver driving over the Rimutuka Hill recently, and they were weaving over the centre line. This is a very high accident area. He got them to pull over, and drove their car down the other side of the hill for them, as they were having major difficultly. When they got down the other side they went on their way, but they were obviously struggling with the NZ roads' He also contacted the police afterwards did this to let them know, but they weren't particularly interested. They basically said if we seem them pass by we will stop them. So really it is a government problem to fix. They will happily take the tourist money.

Batman

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#1251879 5-Mar-2015 18:26

http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/tourists-take-law-into-own-hands-by-confiscating-new-zealanders-alcohol/

Batman

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#1254952 10-Mar-2015 21:26

and i definitely won't take this man's keys [he drives on an expired licence]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/67164129/key-snatchers-drivers-licence-is-expired

Geektastic

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#1255022 10-Mar-2015 22:47

mattwnz: I think the problem is that the government hasn't kept up with the influx of foreign drivers coming into NZ, so there isn't the infrstructure and education out there to deal with it. Rental companies also share part of the responsibility with this. In Australia I noticed that they had regular signs on the road that you must drive on the left side of the road.
I saw that car rental companies put a information tie onto the steering wheel of rentals, but that has to be the most stupid place to put it, as you have to remove it to drive the car, so most people will rip it off and bin it.

I think until the government sorts this problem out, people should think twice about driving in these higher tourist areas until they have. My dad got stuck behind a tourist driver driving over the Rimutuka Hill recently, and they were weaving over the centre line. This is a very high accident area. He got them to pull over, and drove their car down the other side of the hill for them, as they were having major difficultly. When they got down the other side they went on their way, but they were obviously struggling with the NZ roads' He also contacted the police afterwards did this to let them know, but they weren't particularly interested. They basically said if we seem them pass by we will stop them. So really it is a government problem to fix. They will happily take the tourist money.

To be fair that road is a disgrace - to have a major national highway using a goat track to cross a small mountain is embarrassing. Cambodian roads are better than that...!

BlakJak

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#1256140 11-Mar-2015 10:37

joker97: and i definitely won't take this man's keys [he drives on an expired licence]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/67164129/key-snatchers-drivers-licence-is-expired

The technicality of an expired drivers license doesn't have any relationship to his ability to drive safely (or not).
I actually agree it detracts from the point.

However,
A rash of key-confiscations is a _bad thing_ and that sort of behavior should be reserved for the most extreme cases of public safety risk. The (non-currently-licensed) driver doing this was inappropriate, based on what i've read of what occurred.

I would only take keys if the offender was an immediate, serious risk to the safety of those around them, and only if that risk meant that Police would not be likely to arrive on time to prevent a mishap.

No signature to see here, move along...

BlakJak

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#1256162 11-Mar-2015 10:51

At the risk of replying to myself, I just read http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11415051 and it's right on the money I think.

No signature to see here, move along...

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MikeB4

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#1256182 11-Mar-2015 11:14

Geektastic:
mattwnz: I think the problem is that the government hasn't kept up with the influx of foreign drivers coming into NZ, so there isn't the infrstructure and education out there to deal with it. Rental companies also share part of the responsibility with this. In Australia I noticed that they had regular signs on the road that you must drive on the left side of the road.
I saw that car rental companies put a information tie onto the steering wheel of rentals, but that has to be the most stupid place to put it, as you have to remove it to drive the car, so most people will rip it off and bin it.

I think until the government sorts this problem out, people should think twice about driving in these higher tourist areas until they have. My dad got stuck behind a tourist driver driving over the Rimutuka Hill recently, and they were weaving over the centre line. This is a very high accident area. He got them to pull over, and drove their car down the other side of the hill for them, as they were having major difficultly. When they got down the other side they went on their way, but they were obviously struggling with the NZ roads' He also contacted the police afterwards did this to let them know, but they weren't particularly interested. They basically said if we seem them pass by we will stop them. So really it is a government problem to fix. They will happily take the tourist money.

To be fair that road is a disgrace - to have a major national highway using a goat track to cross a small mountain is embarrassing. Cambodian roads are better than that...!

And the road has a 100k speed limit

heylinb4nz

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#1257788 13-Mar-2015 11:53

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/67321202/Tourist-charged-over-fatal-Waikato-crash

wow just wow, guy has just lost his wife and 2 friends, he is still in hospital and the police are laying charges. I could understand if he killed or injured a local, but seriously do we not have any humanity ???

looking at the intersection you can see its a pretty dangerous bit of road, passing land, no turning bay, traffic behind you doing 80 kmh.
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.832375,175.217932,3a,75y,8.84h,59.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sF3A92eghSoleZnyL-seexw!2e0

MikeB4

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#1257809 13-Mar-2015 12:27

heylinb4nz: http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/67321202/Tourist-charged-over-fatal-Waikato-crash

wow just wow, guy has just lost his wife and 2 friends, he is still in hospital and the police are laying charges. I could understand if he killed or injured a local, but seriously do we not have any humanity ???

looking at the intersection you can see its a pretty dangerous bit of road, passing land, no turning bay, traffic behind you doing 80 kmh.
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.832375,175.217932,3a,75y,8.84h,59.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sF3A92eghSoleZnyL-seexw!2e0

I believe it is appropriate to lay charges so a court can decide guilt or innocence and not the Police.

afe66

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#1257818 13-Mar-2015 12:34

Because he is accused of the crime of dangerous driving.

Just because he killed his family doesn't give him an excuse . It will be taken into account at sentencing.

Otherwise you could get into the situation where killed your own kid no charge , killed the neighbors kid charged.

What about step kids, foster kids, family friends ... Which ones are ok to kill without being charged.

Simplier this way and consistent.

A.

scuwp

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#1257825 13-Mar-2015 12:47

heylinb4nz: http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/67321202/Tourist-charged-over-fatal-Waikato-crash

wow just wow, guy has just lost his wife and 2 friends, he is still in hospital and the police are laying charges. I could understand if he killed or injured a local, but seriously do we not have any humanity ???

looking at the intersection you can see its a pretty dangerous bit of road, passing land, no turning bay, traffic behind you doing 80 kmh.
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.832375,175.217932,3a,75y,8.84h,59.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sF3A92eghSoleZnyL-seexw!2e0

Firstly I believe you have the wrong intersection. I may stand corrected, but from newspaper reports I think this is it (I know it well).
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.858232,175.192454,3a,75y,6.3h,63.35t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXggfU1Gbo5YNZtj-tAaYnw!2e0

Yes it does have a turning bay and there is plenty of visibility. How the hell a driver misses a 44+ tonne truck and trailer approaching defies logic, but it's not the first, and sadly it won't be the last. I am note sure being a 'tourist' has any material bearing on this one.

Secondly...always the rush to blame something else (the road?) It seems pretty clear in the media that the driver failed in the fundamental rule to give way to approaching traffic.

Thirdly the court is the correct forum to decide guilt, consider all mitigating and contributing factors, and make decisions around penalty (if any). Yes the poor man lost his partner and close friends, but his negligence caused the death of 3 individuals. It's far too serious to just sweep that under the carpet.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

BlakJak

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#1257858 13-Mar-2015 13:25

scuwp:
heylinb4nz: http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/67321202/Tourist-charged-over-fatal-Waikato-crash

wow just wow, guy has just lost his wife and 2 friends, he is still in hospital and the police are laying charges. I could understand if he killed or injured a local, but seriously do we not have any humanity ???

looking at the intersection you can see its a pretty dangerous bit of road, passing land, no turning bay, traffic behind you doing 80 kmh.
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.832375,175.217932,3a,75y,8.84h,59.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sF3A92eghSoleZnyL-seexw!2e0

Firstly I believe you have the wrong intersection. I may stand corrected, but from newspaper reports I think this is it (I know it well).
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.858232,175.192454,3a,75y,6.3h,63.35t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXggfU1Gbo5YNZtj-tAaYnw!2e0

Yes it does have a turning bay and there is plenty of visibility. How the hell a driver misses a 44+ tonne truck and trailer approaching defies logic, but it's not the first, and sadly it won't be the last. I am note sure being a 'tourist' has any material bearing on this one.

Secondly...always the rush to blame something else (the road?) It seems pretty clear in the media that the driver failed in the fundamental rule to give way to approaching traffic.

Thirdly the court is the correct forum to decide guilt, consider all mitigating and contributing factors, and make decisions around penalty (if any). Yes the poor man lost his partner and close friends, but his negligence caused the death of 3 individuals. It's far too serious to just sweep that under the carpet.

This. Police have a policy to lay charges against any motorist involved in an accident of any substance when they are involved, or where a serious injury or death occurs.

(Many years ago I was involved in this process myself).

It's entirely appropriate to let the courts make the judgement.

No signature to see here, move along...

richms

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#1257861 13-Mar-2015 13:26

Because someone used to driving on the opposite side of the road wouldnt be looking for traffic from that direction when turning right.

Richard rich.ms

frankv

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#1257925 13-Mar-2015 14:56

scuwp: How the hell a driver misses a 44+ tonne truck and trailer approaching defies logic, but it's not the first, and sadly it won't be the last. I am note sure being a 'tourist' has any material bearing on this one.

Secondly...always the rush to blame something else (the road?) It seems pretty clear in the media that the driver failed in the fundamental rule to give way to approaching traffic.

As per my earlier comment, it's easy to explain... he was looking the wrong way.

When in NZ, if I'm doing a left turn, I look to the right for traffic approaching me. Assuming everyone is behaving legally, I don't really need to look to the left, since they're on the far side of the road and not crossing my path. I can extend this behaviour to going straight-ahead; I can look to the right, keep moving, even into the intersection if all is clear, then look to the left. If something's coming from there, it will be an abrupt stop, but still safe enough. So, at Give Way and uncontrolled intersections, I instinctively look right and keep moving if all clear, except when turning right.

In America (and other LH-drive countries), the instinct is therefore to look LEFT, keep moving, then look right.

I expect that this tourist has followed his instincts (perhaps he was distracted at the time by talking to a passenger, adjusting the radio, or some other thing), looked left, and moved off into the path of a 44+ tonne truck and trailer.

I believe the message to tourists needs to be "KEEP Left, but LOOK Right".

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