Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2530784 29-Jul-2020 14:38

RIP Andy Haden, one of the first AB's to get 100 Caps, especially a big deal since the number of games played back then was so many less.

Dingbatt

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#2532873 1-Aug-2020 20:57

I give up. The Crusaders score from a clear knock on. They won by more than that seven points but it effectively sunk the Chiefs. And then Okeefe awarded knock ons when the ball travelled less forward.

The Chiefs have been on the wrong side of a reffing howlers this season but this one takes the cake.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tukapa1

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#2532874 1-Aug-2020 21:01

Dingbatt:
I give up. The Crusaders score from a clear knock on. They won by more than that seven points but it effectively sunk the Chiefs. And then Okeefe awarded knock ons when the ball travelled less forward.

The Chiefs have been on the wrong side of a reffing howlers this season but this one takes the cake.

That was a shocker. Four officials and they can't get a knock on right.

I'm a Canes supporter so no bias but that was a terrible decision that killed the competition.

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#2532888 1-Aug-2020 21:55

Cruden came in from a baltant offside position when crusaders one metre out to stop a try missed by the referee so one each.

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#2532934 1-Aug-2020 22:46

tukapa1:
Dingbatt:

I give up. The Crusaders score from a clear knock on. They won by more than that seven points but it effectively sunk the Chiefs. And then Okeefe awarded knock ons when the ball travelled less forward.

The Chiefs have been on the wrong side of a reffing howlers this season but this one takes the cake.

That was a shocker. Four officials and they can't get a knock on right.

I'm a Canes supporter so no bias but that was a terrible decision that killed the competition.

Not really sure how to look at this. If it's deemed as a 'pass' and the player had control then even if the ball travels forward, as long as the hands go backwards, its all good as per:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg</a>?rel=0' frameborder='0' allowfullscreen>

but, was it a pass, was it under control...?

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#2532964 2-Aug-2020 08:36

tanivula:but, was it a pass, was it under control...?

It was as “under control” as Stevenson’s deliberate knock on was. At no time did the ball travel away from the tryline, it wasn’t under control and it hit the ground. In no way was it a pass.

I agree that Cruden didn’t join the ruck from behind the centre when he saved that try.

I expect Bryce Lawrence to come out tomorrow and say they made a mistake. Hopefully he will also praise the Chiefs for not haranguing the ref. I’m not as good a sport as Sam Cane, I probably would have said “I’ve had enough of this” and led the team off the field.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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networkn

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#2533073 2-Aug-2020 14:17

Dingbatt:

I expect Bryce Lawrence to come out tomorrow and say they made a mistake. Hopefully he will also praise the Chiefs for not haranguing the ref. I’m not as good a sport as Sam Cane, I probably would have said “I’ve had enough of this” and led the team off the field.

That would be exceedingly poor form (and I would expect he would have been stripped of his AB's captaincy and rightly so, as a result). The Chiefs have been on the "right" side of the ref calls *many* times in the past.

As long as sport has been played, refs have made mistakes (though I disagree with your assessment of this particular call).

Rugby is played for 80+ minutes and the Chiefs had their chances.

There were plenty of calls for the Chiefs in that game as well, missed forward passes (and one for the Crusaders at least as well), and quite a few not straight lineout calls that weren't made.

There is also the matter of Stevensons yellow card, there is a different standard applied to an intercept than in general play. Many players "bat" the ball backwards in the modern game, but the standard to show you could make an intercept simply must be higher. Comparing the two movements isn't reasonable.

The ref didn't cost the Chiefs that win.

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#2533077 2-Aug-2020 14:22

I wonder what would happen, if a team of won next week, won the competition, but the final game was the following week, but they were on a bye...

It probably won't come to pass, but I was curious nonetheless.

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#2533321 2-Aug-2020 19:22

networkn:

That would be exceedingly poor form (and I would expect he would have been stripped of his AB's captaincy and rightly so, as a result). The Chiefs have been on the "right" side of the ref calls *many* times in the past.

As long as sport has been played, refs have made mistakes (though I disagree with your assessment of this particular call).

Rugby is played for 80+ minutes and the Chiefs had their chances.

There were plenty of calls for the Chiefs in that game as well, missed forward passes (and one for the Crusaders at least as well), and quite a few not straight lineout calls that weren't made.

There is also the matter of Stevensons yellow card, there is a different standard applied to an intercept than in general play. Many players "bat" the ball backwards in the modern game, but the standard to show you could make an intercept simply must be higher. Comparing the two movements isn't reasonable.

The ref didn't cost the Chiefs that win.

Sorry, I should have put a /s after my comment because it wasn’t serious (and I’m surprised you think any professional sportsman would walk off in a huff). But just look how far the ball actually travelled towards the opposition dead ball line (the definition of “forward”) in both cases. Stevenson’s action was a yellow card all day.

In sport there is a “rub of the green” but in the SRAotearoa that definitely been with the Crusaders and against the Chiefs. Hence is partly why one is first and one is last. That, a better team culture, and taking your chances vs squandering them.

The Chiefs have scored the least number of tries (ever I think) in any campaign and I’ve got to wonder if there is a ‘Welsh’ influence.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2533376 2-Aug-2020 23:04

Dingbatt:

Sorry, I should have put a /s after my comment because it wasn’t serious (and I’m surprised you think any professional sportsman would walk off in a huff). But just look how far the ball actually travelled towards the opposition dead ball line (the definition of “forward”) in both cases. Stevenson’s action was a yellow card all day.

In sport there is a “rub of the green” but in the SRAotearoa that definitely been with the Crusaders and against the Chiefs. Hence is partly why one is first and one is last. That, a better team culture, and taking your chances vs squandering them.

The Chiefs have scored the least number of tries (ever I think) in any campaign and I’ve got to wonder if there is a ‘Welsh’ influence.

I have been truly surprised at how few "Chiefs" tries the Chiefs have scored. I can't really see how Gatland would be causing that though unless he is confusing the players (which is my guess) or his new game plan is taking quite a long time to settle. The few times that the AB's lost under Hansen, it usually came down to poor messaging by the coaches, which is why they rarely (ever?) lost twice in a row? I have a feeling that Gatland is trying to make the Chiefs into something quite different from what they have been in the past. Their attack seems very... confused.

The Crusaders have had some pretty poor calls made against them, people forget because they win most of their games.

On an unrelated note, how good have the Blues been this year? They are like a completely different team. I think they have finally found the message that the players can buy into. Their defence is fantastic, and it's been pretty great to watch their attack. Their forwards absolutely smashed the Highlanders and even Aaron Smiths magic couldn't get the Highlanders home. (Seriously, how freaking fast is Aaron Smiths pass the last 8 weeks!!). It was a really enjoyable game. Kudos to Tana Umaga for hanging around, I think he wasn't a great head coach at SR level yet (I think he jumped into it too early), but as part of the overall team MacDonald has put together, and having a few players like DC and BB, they are so much more focused. Great to hear Akira Ioane talk about the stuff he is doing to stay in the moment and how it's improving his game. I am still not a fan of his brother as a center....

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#2533572 3-Aug-2020 10:15

I am wondering what the chances are that Akira Ioane makes the AB's in the next 18/24 months? He has been playing well this year, no doubt, but so have many other players in the 6 and 8. Hard to believe they won't include Boshier who is a 7 naturally but can play 6 and 8 as well I think?

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#2533605 3-Aug-2020 11:22

Reds Brumbies was an interesting game. The Brumbies only seem to know how to score through rolling mauls, though they are effective at it, no doubt. Petaia and O'Conner were really good. I suspect Petiaia will grow into something very special, he has a pretty interesting quality I haven't seen in an Australian back for a while. O'Connor has put on some weight since getting back, but he seems relaxed and much more settled since his return and it's making his play at 10 pretty good.

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#2533827 3-Aug-2020 15:48

So, nothing from Lawrence re the Chiefs. I have watched it and watched it. What I see, and the explanation from someone else, was that it left his hands backwards, everything else is irrelevant.

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#2533839 3-Aug-2020 16:16

networkn:

So, nothing from Lawrence re the Chiefs. I have watched it and watched it. What I see, and the explanation from someone else, was that it left his hands backwards, everything else is irrelevant.

Nope. Where it goes out of the hands is irrelevant. It is relevant whether possession is lost and then the ball goes in a forward direction. You can lose the ball backwards out of your hands, into your chest and then forward. It is still a knock on.

Definition from the laws:

Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

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#2533882 3-Aug-2020 18:01

Handle9:

networkn:

So, nothing from Lawrence re the Chiefs. I have watched it and watched it. What I see, and the explanation from someone else, was that it left his hands backwards, everything else is irrelevant.

Nope. Where it goes out of the hands is irrelevant. It is relevant whether possession is lost and then the ball goes in a forward direction. You can lose the ball backwards out of your hands, into your chest and then forward. It is still a knock on.

Definition from the laws:

Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

“Left his hands backwards” only applies in determining a forward pass, not a knock on. He didn’t have control of the ball, not a pass.

”Forward” travels towards the opposition dead ball line. At all times the ball travelled “forward”.

Lawrence is probably too embarrassed to admit fault for the third week in a row.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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