Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3386168 22-Jun-2025 10:47

#redemptionforpenney

That was some final! I was on edge for 80 minutes. I enjoyed it and would have done so regardless of the result, from purely a Rugby fans perspective.

Both teams showed incredible defence AND incredibly penalty counts considering how many tackles made. That was probably the best thing for me, the penalty counts on defense by both teams.

I was genuinely surprised both Havilli and Jacobsen passed their HIA's. They did a freeze frame on jacobsen at the point of contact, and it seemed to me like he lost conciousness momentatily, as would be reasonable.

The Chiefs were pretty much the better team most of the season, but the result (and history) shows it takes something superhuman to beat a team at home in a final.

It was a nice way to send Apollo Stadium off.

Bring on the new one. I am considering flying down for the Crusaders first game in the new stadium.

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#3386170 22-Jun-2025 10:51

I said it a couple of weeks ago, but Penney is really a pretty humble man. When the final whistle blew he congratulated his assistants, and his interview post game was really classy. I have a lot of respect for the guy, who has overcome some adversity, kept his cool and kept going.

I felt bad for MacMillan who as much as I wanted the Crusaders to win, couldn't have begrudged him a title. I think the Chiefs look the best they have ever looked, under his leadership, taking into account everything. Obviously, they won the titles 2012/13, and haven't won it since, but as a team, I think they are better now.

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#3386173 22-Jun-2025 11:03

I thought the Chiefs had named their new Head Coach when MacMillan asked for early release? I can't see who was appointed, only that Jonno Gibbes was front runner? Did they delay announcing until after the Final Season?

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#3386200 22-Jun-2025 14:33

Fletcher Newall probably MOTM for me. Reviz was deserving and it's really good to have a good 10 to call on, but playing with a grade 2 MCL injury for 80 minutes and being dominant for the majority of that time was nothing short of incredible. He did give away some penalties but fixed the issue.

There were two scrums in the game where the Crusaders pushed the Chiefs off the ball, they felt like massive moments, it was after that I felt that barring any bit of luck (good or bad) or a glaring missed tackle or some sort of absolute brilliance, by the Chiefs, the Crusaders were going to shut the Chiefs down, at their end of the park and suffocate them.

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#3386212 22-Jun-2025 16:52

Networkn:

……..

I was genuinely surprised both Havilli and Jacobsen passed their HIA's. They did a freeze frame on jacobsen at the point of contact, and it seemed to me like he lost conciousness momentatily, as would be reasonable.

The Chiefs were pretty much the better team most of the season, but the result (and history) shows it takes something superhuman to beat a team at home in a final.
…….

The lights definitely flickered for Jacobsen, so I was surprised when he came back on. Maybe he had a concussion when he did the benchmark test at the beginning of the season🤔

Havilli’s yellow, while legitimate, brings into question, if the contact to the head was bad enough to deserve a yellow, why didn’t the ‘victim’ (Narawa) need a HIA? That anomaly has bugged me all season.

As for the season, the Chiefs beat the Crusaders home and away every time…… except when it really mattered.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#3386214 22-Jun-2025 17:36

Yeah, I agree. The rulings around head contact change year on year. A year or so ago, the two last week with the cru v blu and the one cru v chiefs last night would have been red.

If there is head on head and or head on shoulder etc contact HIA for both players should be mandatory esp if it was deemed card able. The mouth guard sensors seem very hit and miss.

Happened in 2023 the Chiefs beat the Crusaders twice mid season but were usurpurped in the final.

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Earbanean

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#3386255 23-Jun-2025 08:38

Well that was real finals footy. Massive credit to the Crusaders for a perfectly executed game and finals run. I sort of think the Chiefs (and the Canes) are early season teams - when it's warm and the ground and ball are dry. Their expansive rugby in those conditions is as good as it gets at this level, but when it comes to winter finals footy, they're short (again). It's great for the All Blacks selectors though, as this is what test footy is like.

The difference in front rows was always going to be a problem. With an all AB starting front row and more coming off the bench, it's pretty hard to stop. The Chiefs more than held their own in lineouts, but scrums were decisive. I think Tamaiti Williams has been the find of the last couple of years (probably even more than Sititi). I hope his knee is OK, because he's critical to the ABs. Honestly, I reckon the same applies to Taylor. If he gets injured, the gap to the next best hookers is significant.

I thought Angus Gardiner had a great game. He's probably my favourite ref at the mo - and definitely way better than Nic Berry. The game was definitely not decided by contentious calls, which I was afraid would happen.

All eyes on the ABs announcement today. I'm guessing they'll continue to be conservative. I hope Fabian Holland gets in and Jason Ryan gets his hands on him. Quinn Tupaea really deserves a recall, but his lack of versatility could count against him. Right wing still too hard to call in my opinion. I guess we won't really know if there are any real brave changes (e.g. Proctor for Ioane, Barrett to 6) until the first match day 23 is announced. Can't wait.

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#3386261 23-Jun-2025 09:15

As a Hurricanes fan I didn't have any team in the final, and while it was a tight game befitting a final, in conditions that suited the tight playing style, I found it quite boring. Box kicks followed by kicking for territory, kicking for the corner and maul. Rinse and repeat. The Crusaders deserved to win by doing the fundamentals better than the Chiefs in the end.

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#3386263 23-Jun-2025 09:28

maoriboy:

As a Hurricanes fan I didn't have any team in the final, and while it was a tight game befitting a final, in conditions that suited the tight playing style, I found it quite boring. Box kicks followed by kicking for territory, kicking for the corner and maul. Rinse and repeat. The Crusaders deserved to win by doing the fundamentals better than the Chiefs in the end.

Yeah I get it - for an impartial observer it wasn't scintillating rugby to watch - but for those invested in the result (like me) it was a gripping match with very little between the teams, meaning every little moment, mistake or decision felt incredibly important.

I agree with @networkn - Newell could easily have been MOTM for me - Reihana was brilliant for a guy who was only brought in for the second half of the season, but FN was immense in an area of the game that proved very decisive.

I also thought Jordan was incredible, and Havili not far behind. Our big name All Blacks really stepped in up in that game, which I think bodes well for the ABs going forward this season.

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#3386266 23-Jun-2025 09:43

Robertson indicated he wished he had been braver in year one selections, though I'm guessing early wobbles probably applied pressure for him to make safe choices later in the season. I wish the NZ public weren't so toxic toward losing. We are spoilt and seem incapable of acknowledging the improvement in other teams or that there are other great coaches and players in the world. I would like to see it be ok for the head coach to be brave in selection for 2 years results more or less not counting against them and then use the last two years to settle the combination and teams into the RWC squad. Personally, I'd rather win most our matches for 4 years and come second or third at the RWC, though I don't feel that way during the RWC! The problem with the RWC is the last 3 matches are knockout, and sport can be Cruel.

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#3386269 23-Jun-2025 09:52

Yeah it was always going to take a season to establish his culture and systems in the team. He was conservative last year, but as you say I think he needed to be. He needed to win as much as he could to win the public and give everyone confidence (including himself) that he could take his "ways" into the international arena. And to be fair, had he won one of those tests against the Bokke (which we were very unlucky not to win both) I think last year would have been viewed as a successful season.

I think we will see more "form-based" selections this afternoon, than last year. He has had a year to see the incumbants first hand and get a read on them up close. He will not be picking based on past performances under Fozzie, but on how they went under him last season. And he will definitely be looking forward now to RWC 2027, so I would expect a bit more youth.

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#3386299 23-Jun-2025 10:33

I personally feel that despite public sentiment, Fozzies selections weren't too bad. Test Rugby tends to be more conservative selection wise usually, anyway. I would have liked him to try some different options at 10 when it was clear Dmac wasn't going to magically improve under his regime as many predicted, but we lost a few tests and looked pretty shaky.

I think many people think that if you put the 23 best performing SR players together you are going to have the strongest team. I reality it's much more complex than that. Sometimes selections are about what a player allows other players to do, or how they communicate. This is particularly important defensively.

Foster continued to pick Reiko long after I'd have dropped him and then Robertson picked him and continued to select him, despite his handling and distribution problems, so there is something he brings that I can't see. Sometimes stats show a picture that play doesn't show but I can't see anything in his stats either. Sam Canes stats clearly showed things that weren't as clear and obvious during play, mostly because unless you are looking for it, what he did wasn't particularly noticeable. What he did though, made it possible for others to do more impressive visible things.

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#3386301 23-Jun-2025 10:37

I wouldn't be suprised to see a change at 13 in Black this year...

Earbanean

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#3386305 23-Jun-2025 10:55

I don't think we'll get the answers to most of these issues/questions today. e.g. Ioane will be in the squad. Whether or not he starts at 13, we won't know until the week of the first test. Same probably goes for wings, blindside etc.

Thinking about wings, and the way Ben Smith, Will Jordan etc were put on the wing, it wouldn't surprise me if that's where they put Reuben Love - at least for now.

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#3386381 23-Jun-2025 12:38

Glad to see Tavatavanawai get the call up. Proves you don’t have to be in a winning team. He was outstanding for the Highlanders.

Looks like they’ve gone all next Gen for halfbacks, with Roigard, Ratima and Hotham. No room for Christie.

They seem to be persevering with Clark. Narawa as injury cover for ALB though.

Tough on Havili to miss out on a spot. But the inside back stocks are blessed with riches. As are the loose forwards.

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