Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3428015 26-Oct-2025 10:32

Once it was apparent the wind was similar to last week and the tactics were pretty succesful, I thought they would be deployed again which they were. Otago didn't accrue a big enough gap in the first half and it all felt a little inevitable in the second half.

A great way to send Tom Christie off, and boy did he look over the moon and fair enough.

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#3429439 31-Oct-2025 09:58

All Blacks team to play Ireland

1 Ethan de Groot, 2 Codie Taylor, 3 Fletcher Newell, 4 Scott Barrett (captain), 5 Fabian Holland, 6 Simon Parker, 7 Ardie Savea, 8 Peter Lakai, 9 Cam Roigard, 10 Beauden Barrett, 11 Caleb Clarke, 12 Jordie Barrett, 13 Quinn Tupaea, 14 Leroy Carter, 15 Will Jordan. Reserves: 16 Samisoni Taukei’aho, 17 Tamaiti Williams, 18 Pasilio Tosi, 19 Josh Lord, 20 Wallace Sititi, 21 Cortez Ratima, 22 Leicester Fainga’anuku, 23 Damian McKenzie.

Ireland side to place All Blacks

1. Andrew Porter, 2. Dan Sheehan (captain), 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. James Ryan, 5. Tadhg Beirne, 6. Ryan Baird, 7. Josh van der Flier, 8. Jack Conan, 9. Jamison Gibson-Park, 10. Jack Crowley, 11. James Lowe, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 13. Garry Ringrose, 14. Tommy O’Brien, 15. Jamie Osborne. Reserves: 16. Ronan Kelleher, 17. Paddy McCarthy, 18. Finlay Bealham, 19. Iain Henderson, 20. Caelan Doris, 21. Craig Casey, 22. Sam Prendergast, 23. Bundee Aki.

Good to see Roigard back, and Tupea to get another chance along with Leroy Carter who have been impressive. I'll be interested to see if Parker handles Ireland OK. I hope Leicester can continue to provide impact.

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#3430070 2-Nov-2025 14:00

That first 40 mins is what’s wrong with international rugby. Wayyy too many stoppages and don’t get me started on the “red” card. It took 53 minutes to play, and the ref was atrociously bad. So much for selling the game to Americans. It made NFL look fast lol.

Good result in the end thankfully we have the Kiwis v Tonga tonight so I can at least watch a decent game this weekend.

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#3430575 3-Nov-2025 17:30

The Red Card was fairly farcical. The stoppages were a consequence of the TMO not having access to teh host broadcasters feed, which is different to most other locations NZ plays in. It should have been identified quicker than it was, but other than that, it was pretty much par for the course, once everyone had access to the footage.

I had other issues with the first half, in that we really didn't look very... organised, for want of a different term. The second half we gained physical ascendency and things started to click. It worries me more than a little we hired a specific line-out coach, and can't seem to get our own ball back at the lineout.

It's generally shocking to me that B Barrett did not end up HIA for either impact, he looked clearly out of it after the first hit, and after the second hit, I am not sure, if he was certain which side of the field he was on. I suspect his really weird kick toward the end of the game was a consequence. AB's doctors should absolutely have intervened.

I also don't understand why we don't successfully find touch when we kick. It's basic fixable thing, it's been going on for weeks and weeks now. No chance it's intentional. If you aren't going for touch, then the smarter play, is to find grass and turn the backs around.

Not convinced by Caleb Clarke yet. He made one decent linebreak, off the back of an inteference, and immediately was turned over. This happens often (not just to him). Dmac is also horrendous for this. He runs sideways forever, looking for a whole, but, when he can't find one, he takes contact where there are no cleaners. Reece by comparison would avoid this by running back toward his support.

LF and Tupea look interesting in the backline together, I suspect that will be the run on combo next week against Scotland. For me, it's now or never for Love at 10. Dmac has always looked more comfortable at 15.

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#3430590 3-Nov-2025 18:37

QT & LF for 12 & 13 going forward, or at least against Scotland. Jordie might be a fine player, but the ball doesn't seem to move out the backline with him in the middle of it. Once it was QT & LF things changed, and it was more like the ABs of old where we'd back ourselves to have a go, and it seemed that all were happy to pass it on, rather than dying with it. I think LF makes a difference in that he showed that even if he gets stopped, he can stand in the tackle and off-load - we've been missing that. The Irish realised pretty quickly that LF was going to take them on, and it immediately created space around him because they had to commit at least 2 every time he got the ball.

The thing with kicking out (or not) is that we don't seem to have confidence in our lineout, and when we do, it seems to crumble pretty quickly when pressured. That said, I tend to agree on putting the ball out in most situations, as what's been happening to us is that the opposition just boot it back, and if they make it contestable, more often than not they're winning it back from that as well. Better to restart from a lineout where we have a small chance of snaffling one, but at least our defense is set when the opposition do get the ball.

Can't wait to have Richie back next year. If QT & LF can keep it together in the midfield I think the ABs will be a lot more dangerous than we have been for a few years. Just need to find a number 6, as we're definitely missing one at the moment. I would have loved to have seen Tom Christie at 7, Ardie at 6, and whoever at 8. Tom's a proven machine who'll tackle anything, then Ardie to arrive next and secure the turnover. The selectors seem obsessed with size and a ball carrying 7, that's not really been working for us, so maybe we should have a crack at speed to the tackle...?

Yes, I'm a Cantab, but then, the rest of NZ are welcome to put up better options who know how to win trophies.

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#3430648 4-Nov-2025 09:04

Jordie and Scott are out for the Scotland Test. Josh Beehre has been called in for Training Cover.

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#3430653 4-Nov-2025 09:41

networkn:

... Dmac is also horrendous for this. He runs sideways forever, looking for a whole, but, when he can't find one, he takes contact where there are no cleaners. Reece by comparison would avoid this by running back toward his support.

Did you miss the fantastic try we scored where DMac ran a beautiful line cutting back onto a pass from Barrett, through a hole and then straightened and put Sititi away for a run in to the line?

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#3430672 4-Nov-2025 10:12

Earbanean:

Did you miss the fantastic try we scored where DMac ran a beautiful line cutting back onto a pass from Barrett, through a hole and then straightened and put Sititi away for a run in to the line?

Of course I saw that. When was the time before that he produced magic? How many mistakes has he made by comparison? (It's common for his line breaks to result in him being turned over, his out of hand kicking is pretty horrible).

I am not saying he has no value and isn't a good player. I am saying he isn't a test 10, and obviously, the selectors agree.

For me, I'll take someone who produces a little less magic, but can do the basics consistently well. Someone who can drive a game, and has game vision. He can be brilliant, and his place kicking is comfortably the best in our squad and some of the best in test rugby as a percentage, but is he, in your opinion the starting 10 for the AB's ?

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#3430684 4-Nov-2025 10:28

networkn:

Of course I saw that. When was the time before that he produced magic? How many mistakes has he made by comparison? (It's common for his line breaks to result in him being turned over, his out of hand kicking is pretty horrible).

I am not saying he has no value and isn't a good player. I am saying he isn't a test 10, and obviously, the selectors agree.

For me, I'll take someone who produces a little less magic, but can do the basics consistently well. Someone who can drive a game, and has game vision. He can be brilliant, and his place kicking is comfortably the best in our squad and some of the best in test rugby as a percentage, but is he, in your opinion the starting 10 for the AB's ?

I never said anywhere that he should be the test 10. I pointed out you being incorrect in saying he always runs sideways and turns the ball over - when there's clear evidence to the contrary. You were comparing him to Reece. They play different positions. Reece definitely isn't a test 10. Also, maybe time to let it go about Reece.

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#3430686 4-Nov-2025 10:33

D-Mac is a genius but he is not a structured team player IMHO. Best utilised at #15 from the bench against tiring teams - as exemplified in the Ireland match.

Fit, fast and organised rush defenses are extremely difficult to get around. The only options are monotonous multiple phases until the rush defense eventually breaks down or risky chip kicks that sometimes work but often just hand over possession.

Rush defenses are killing rugby union as a spectacle and making league look like a superior product.

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#3430726 4-Nov-2025 12:14

Earbanean:

I never said anywhere that he should be the test 10. I pointed out you being incorrect in saying he always runs sideways and turns the ball over - when there's clear evidence to the contrary. You were comparing him to Reece. They play different positions. Reece definitely isn't a test 10. Also, maybe time to let it go about Reece.

My comment stands and is correct. More of his Linebreaks result in turn overs or other errors, than tries. Mostly because no-one, even him, doesn't know what he is going to do, but because when he runs sidesways looking for a gap, when he can't find one, where he takes contact isn't near his support cleaners. I wasn't comparing Reece and MacKenzie directly, I was demonstrating what I consider a better way to be looking for a linebreak is, using a player who does it better. Caleb Clarke did the same thing, linebreak, turn over. It's a problem in our game.

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#3430728 4-Nov-2025 12:18

johno1234:

D-Mac is a genius but he is not a structured team player IMHO. Best utilised at #15 from the bench against tiring teams - as exemplified in the Ireland match.

Fit, fast and organised rush defenses are extremely difficult to get around. The only options are monotonous multiple phases until the rush defense eventually breaks down or risky chip kicks that sometimes work but often just hand over possession.

Rush defenses are killing rugby union as a spectacle and making league look like a superior product.

I think genius is overstating it, but I agree he is and has always been better in a position where he has more time and space, and 10 isn't that position for him.

I agree the rush defense is problematic. We have had periods where we have found ways around it. Kicking for territory which requires players to run back to a new defensive line, tires players faster and creates gaps toward the end of the game. We haven't traditionally been great in the last 20 minutes under Robertson, but I can see we have improved here.

Our kicking needs to be better, and I have been saying it continuously since the Foster era.

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#3430743 4-Nov-2025 13:06

I had a friend in Australia that hasn't watched rugby in years (but is an avid league fan) watch the AB's game and comment on the amount of kicking.

I must admit I hadn't really noticed but when he pointed it out I had to agree, does anyone remember around what time contestable kicks became such a huge part of rugby (particularly internationals)? It must have been within the last 10 years or so, I remember all black teams consistantly attacking from one wing to the other looking for tired forwards or gaps in the line.

I feel like South Africa and to a lesser extent the Northern Hemisphere teams have forced the AB's and to lesser extent the Wallabies into playing a style of NH rugby. SRP at times last year has shown the attacking flair we used to show in spades but the lean into the very defensive style has been to the detriment of rugby as an entertainment product IMHO.

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#3430745 4-Nov-2025 13:14

England and Ireland in particular played kick-or-position rugby for years, along with the rush defense. The ABs now use it when they're unable to overcome the rush defense. It is ugly and dull to watch.

Strangely enough, Australia seem to do better than most with rush defenses. AB management should take a look.

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#3430764 4-Nov-2025 14:06

I hate to let hard facts get in the way of a good rant, but given it's Geekzone, I guess I should.

From match stats, Turnovers lost:

McKenzie = 0.

Clarke = 3, B Barrett = 2, Jordan, carter, Tupaea, Roigard, de Groot, Holland, Parker, Fainga'anuku = 1

Clarke highest turnovers lost, but had 14 carries. So 21% lost. By comparison, B Barrett 2 from 7 lost (29%), Roigard 1 from 3 lost (33%). J Barrett 1 from 2 lost (50%)

Linebreaks from Carries:

McKenzie 1 from 3 (33%), Clarke 3 from 14 (21%), Jordan 1 from 12 (8%). B Barrett 0 from (0%)

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