Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#3433639 12-Nov-2025 08:30

networkn:

Contrary to Phil Giffords take, the most disappointing card for me, was the Yellow to Carter. It was poor sportsmanship, showed a lack of ability to deal with frustration, and was the most preventable and avoidable of the 3. Hopefully, he learns something.

Yeah, I think frustration coming out in a split second. A mate was saying how unprofessional and indicative of inexperience it was. I reminded him that the great Richie McCaw got a yellow card in a test match for exactly the same thing - and not early in his career either.

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#3433640 12-Nov-2025 08:38

Earbanean:

Yeah, I think frustration coming out in a split second. A mate was saying how unprofessional and indicative of inexperience it was. I reminded him that the great Richie McCaw got a yellow card in a test match for exactly the same thing - and not early in his career either.

I'm struggling to see your take it was bourne out of frustration. To me it was a move made of a failure to deal with the (scoreboard) pressure. He isn't inexperienced, he has played quite a bit of 7's. If this is a one and done thing, it will be a blip. I really hope it is.

I was pretty disappointed/shocked by McCaws card too. He had a long successful career made up mostly of very positive moments, and was appropriately contrite afterward.

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#3433642 12-Nov-2025 08:45

Finau, Jacobsen heading home.

Leo-Willie called alongside Tunagtau as training cover. Some chatter he will be named to play, but there is literally no chance of that, there are players well above him in the pecking order. They would have called the starters from the XV if they wanted Injury cover.

Wondering what the chances are Parker will return to start this week? Last week our loose forwards didn't seem very balanced. Could have been just a bit of unfamilarity I guess. We really missed Barrett, he is an awesome body mover, probably the best the AB's have in the back row.

Personally, I would have liked to see Leo-Willie in this match, or at least for Wales, he has been the point of difference quite a few times this season for the Crusaders and Canterbury.

GV27

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#3434888 16-Nov-2025 07:48

Razor out

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#3434949 16-Nov-2025 10:51

I can't recall the last time I felt more frustrated than I do right now.

"Too many players not playing like All Blacks" is the exactly correct headline right now. We have too many players not meeting a standard you'd expect. In my view, it's indicative that the players don't care enough about the result, have enough pride in the Jersey, or representing their country. Losing doesn't hurt enough.

The end of the year review needs to go very deep, some decisions need to be made about what happens next. It needs, in my opinion to come back to harder lines and instilling a standard we aren't meeting of being able to perform our basics right.

We could have lost by even more.

It's not about the fact we lost, it's about HOW we lost.

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#3434950 16-Nov-2025 10:51

GV27:

Razor out

/snore

Replaced by whom?

Edit.

This is the epitomy of NZ fans really. When Ted lost the 2007 RWC QF, we wanted them gone. Had we have sacked them, we wouldn't have been the team we were from that point onward.

People wanted Foster gone, the last 18 months under him were pretty decent culminating in a RWC loss by 1 point with men down for the majority of that match.

With a little time to calm down, I do want to make some acknowledgements of where I felt we were decent tonight. On the whole, a massive improvement in our lineout. We stole more than they won. Proctor was better on defence, and our midfield attack looked good during many periods.

We made some excellent decisions around our kicking generally. We kept them pinned in their half for a while there, we found grass and space. Probably the best kicking performance in that regard, that I can recall this year.

Lakai had his best game yet, he was very good in the first half. Parker and Savea.

Missing touch really hurts us, not getting better distance on our kicks for touch, reduces the pressure we can apply. BB looks tired and spent and his decision making around his kicks seem flawed as a result.

Our on field leaders aren't making good decisions at time. There are times to go for the line, there are times to kick. When we had Taylor in the bin (absolutely stupid yellow card), we should have taken the easy 3 and wound down the clock.

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#3435052 16-Nov-2025 12:04

Thoroughly enjoyable as an England fan. We don't beat NZ very often so this will be a memorable one.

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#3435071 16-Nov-2025 14:22

Next week I'd like to see the following changes:

Dmac at 10 (ick) is necessary, Beauden looks spent.

Love at 15, Jordan to the wing. LF and Tupea at Centers

Alternanatively, Love at 10, Jordan to Fullback, Dmac from the bench to backup Love if things aren't going according to plan, and impact if it is.

Clarke and Carter on the wings if Clarke is fit. I don't want LF on the wing if it's avoidable.

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#3435072 16-Nov-2025 14:25

I have to question Scott Barrett’s Captaincy. There was some really dumb decision making at times, particularly around penalty options.

The ABs look like a bunch of Super Rugby players that have been thrown together and haven’t got it together. And I agree Beauden Barrett had an off day and the performance suffered.

Taylor’s yellow card was a farce and essentially cost the game. Not that the ABs deserved to win. They were the second best team on the park by a margin.

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GV27

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#3435075 16-Nov-2025 14:54

networkn:

This is the epitomy of NZ fans really. When Ted lost the 2007 RWC QF, we wanted them gone. Had we have sacked them, we wouldn't have been the team we were from that point onward.

How dare we want performers in a high performance team.

This isn't a 'had a great regular season but fell apart in a tournament' situation, this is week-in, week-out of poor discipline, decision-making and too-safe selection calls. First we had a year of blooding in new players that just resulted in the same non-performers being selected anyway. Now we have multiple, winnable games being lost in a season. This is a completely different situation to what we had under Ted and Hansen.

I get the feeling the real issue here is actually too many people with too much to say about Foster, who has a far better record at international level, are now too proud or too provincially-inclined to accept that maybe the national-level coach with huge success built on one of the best talent mill unions in the country may not be the right option anymore. Admitting you're wrong about something you felt strongly about isn't easy.

And you know what? That's OK. There's plenty of great domestic coaches who would just not be the right fit for international level games. And sometimes you don't know until you try. But how long do you keep accepting worse outcomes from the ABs that people would not have accepted from the Crusaders? You can only trust the process so long if it doesn't seem to be going anywhere and nothing is improving.

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#3435096 16-Nov-2025 15:59

GV27:

How dare we want performers in a high performance team.

Sigh.

This isn't a 'had a great regular season but fell apart in a tournament' situation, this is week-in, week-out of poor discipline, decision-making and too-safe selection calls. First we had a year of blooding in new players that just resulted in the same non-performers being selected anyway. Now we have multiple, winnable games being lost in a season. This is a completely different situation to what we had under Ted and Hansen.

Yeah, you completely missed the point. Ted and Hansen produced one of the worst performances at a RWC, and turned themselves and the AB's around. Sacking the coach doesn't magically fix most teams. Most people wanted Foster gone, and yet, he managed to produce an excellent result in the end.

I get the feeling the real issue here is actually too many people with too much to say about Foster, who has a far better record at international level, are now too proud or too provincially-inclined to accept that maybe the national-level coach with huge success built on one of the best talent mill unions in the country may not be the right option anymore. Admitting you're wrong about something you felt strongly about isn't easy.

And you know what? That's OK. There's plenty of great domestic coaches who would just not be the right fit for international level games. And sometimes you don't know until you try. But how long do you keep accepting worse outcomes from the ABs that people would not have accepted from the Crusaders? You can only trust the process so long if it doesn't seem to be going anywhere and nothing is improving.

This is the Kiwi way. When we don't get what we want out of our teams, we sack the coach. I can understand it, I mean it worked so well for the Blues, they had like 6 coaches, trying to fix the Blues... Its almost like it wasn't a (head) coaching problem..... Compare this to the Crusaders who stuck it out with what looked to be a coach struggling, and next minute we have another title.

I agree something needs to change. Perhaps the problem is Roberston, but if you think he sends his team out wanting them to perform that way, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

I'd be starting with a potential clean out of the assistants, it feels like there are too many there and the messages aren't clear and simple enough for the team. We are a capable team, full of good to great players, but the decision making isn't 'clear' enough.

We had a period of this match where I felt we were looking like something special.

The end of year review will be fairly critical to where we end up next year. All is not lost, but I agree, changes are required.

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GV27

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#3435106 16-Nov-2025 20:46

The assistants have already been cycled through. That's not a great excuse anymore. We're two years into this thing. The 'bedding in' phase is over. The structures should be in place.

What's the excuse going to be if we have the same issues in 12 months time? Who else will be lined up to take the fall just so we can avoid asking a really obvious question first so some people can save some face?

I don't sense a huge amount of urgency in fixing some of the game plan and tactical issues we seem to keep having week-in and week-out because here we are a year later still losing games as a result. The world has moved on in terms of play and style and we're still trying to muddy through 60 minutes of poor play and hoping our opponents will run out of steam.

tukapa1

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#3435109 16-Nov-2025 21:34

Combination of two things - we don't have the world class cattle anymore, and I'm sure the coaching must follow the way Razor thinks and speaks - completely muddled.

If his mates can't work with Razor (Leon McDonald and Jason Holland) then who else is going to be able to? I doubt any other quality coaching options will put their hand up to work in that environment.

Razor had the mandate to have a clean out when he came in but he instead chose to be conservative and basically pick who was still around following Foster finishing up. He claims to want to be 4 deep in all positions prior to the World Cup, yet doesn't give people an opportunity. I'm sure the NZ rugby public would have been understanding if he had a major clean out when he first turned up with an eye to RWC '27, but he's left that far too late. Most of the new players he has blooded have been because he was forced through injury and unavailability.

If Scott Barrett and Patrick Tuipolutu had been available for every game then Razor would have kept picking that combination and you wouldn't have seen the likes of Darry, Holland and Lord playing.

We've not seen a young 10 because he has all of his eggs in the Mounga basket, and we know on past performance that's no guarantee.

Without injury to Jordie Barrett we wouldn't have seen the recent midfield experiments. The fact Reiko Ioane is still in the squad is a joke.

In short, Razor has been uninspiring, his cherry picked assistants struggle to work with him (and in particular Jason Ryan) and we have built very little for the World Cup in just under two years.

NZR need to make a decision at the end of year review if they need to dump Razor and his team (what's left of it) or allow him to perhaps lead NZ to their worst equal performance at a World Cup.

It's interesting looking back at the bayong for Fozzies blood by red and black supporters and the silence now that Razor is trucking along worse. First ever loss to Argentina over there, record defeat to the Boks (and losing the Freedom Cup) and now only three points off equaling the biggest defeat to England (and losing the Hillary Shield). Together with losing the Rugby Championship and two narrowish victories over Aussie to hold the Bledisloe, and those two wins being put in perspective with the Aussies results on their endo of year tour (loss to Italy last week and hammered by an Ireland side on the decline this morning).

Still, should be thankful I suppose. There's still one trophy in the cabinet.

rp1790

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#3435126 17-Nov-2025 07:44

networkn:

I can't recall the last time I felt more frustrated than I do right now.

"Too many players not playing like All Blacks" is the exactly correct headline right now. We have too many players not meeting a standard you'd expect. In my view, it's indicative that the players don't care enough about the result, have enough pride in the Jersey, or representing their country. Losing doesn't hurt enough.

The end of the year review needs to go very deep, some decisions need to be made about what happens next. It needs, in my opinion to come back to harder lines and instilling a standard we aren't meeting of being able to perform our basics right.

We could have lost by even more.

It's not about the fact we lost, it's about HOW we lost.

I thoroughly agree with this. Its been two years under Razor and the players and team as a whole are not performing and don't seem motivated enough, nor have the passion and pride expected of a professional sports team, especially of the All Blacks. Something is very wrong here.

And, I'm not convinced "it's the coach and we should sack him". I'm not sure there's anyone else, it just seems that razor isn't being himself and perhaps has been absorbed into the NZRU machine and doesn't have the wherewithal to be himself. He has been quite conservative and we're not seeing anything "building" consistently and thats my biggest concern.

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#3435128 17-Nov-2025 07:50

JPNZ:

Why not? Because we used to be the world's best doesn't cut it. The AB's have had this "aura" in world rugby for far too long. We are not and will not be the world's best in the next 5 to 10 years. Rugby is dying in this country and we just don't produce world class talent anymore.

Bring on the future when we celebrate having a winning record greater than 50%

I still stand by my comments, England were bookies favourites to win and they won well. The most important position on the park is 10 and we don't have any players that would even make top 5 in the world in that position.

Bout time kiwi fans accept the new normal

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