Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3437088 24-Nov-2025 10:22

Earbanean:

For all the talk this year of the ABs attack problems, once again it was our defence (or lack there of) inside our 22, that was a major problem. We are so soft and passive in that defence and some or the reads and marking were school boy error bad. Scoring 52 points is great, but when the number 12 team in the world scores 26 against us, then you know we have a problem.

Another thing I noticed, was that the newspapers, TV shows, etc, all quoted post match comments from a 23 year old, second year All Black (Sititi), rather than our captain. Barrett's post match comments were so insipid and uninspiring. I think that sums up his captaincy (or lack there of). I wonder if Razor's loyalty to him will be trumped by desperate need for a turn around with the ABs?

Yes, I do agree with you about the defence, that was far more concerning to me than the 52 points we put on them. Our backs were fairly bad in defence this weekend, and I do acknowledge the lack of dominant tackling.

We have had some strong defensive performances this year. We are capable of some good defensive periods, I am wondering how much of a contributing factor 13 changes to our starting 15 are to our cohension? Some of these players haven't had a match in months, haven't played together much etc. It might seem like I am looking for excuses, but I imagine it must be a partial factor.

I'd be surprised if we had played again next week with the same team, if a fair chunk of that wasn't resolved, automatically.

If you want to see what I consider excellent defence is, in the last 10 minutes of the Ireland SA game, when Ireland were at the door of SA, watch the care and passion and pride SA showed in defending their line. This is what I want to see.

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#3437091 24-Nov-2025 10:32

I saw an interesting point made over the weekend on social media.

Rassie is considered 'magical' as a coach. His win rate with the Boks is 74.5 percent.

Razor is being panned as 'terrible' and has a win rate of 73.9.

Objectively, SA have better players in a number of positions over us right now.

I know that we as fans in NZ have high expectations, and so we should, and it's the way we are playing and losing right now, that rubs people the wrong way.

Joe Schmidt is considered to be a great coach, his win rate with the Wallabies is 43.2%.

I believe Razor made the right decision picking Scooter as captain. The AB's made considerably personnel changes in 2024, having a 'known quantity' as captain is a reasonable idea. Scooter has been pretty decent as captain for the Crusaders.

Having said that, I am not sure he is the right guy moving forward. (Though his is absolutely the right guy to be on the field at 4) I'd really like to see us find a longer term prospect, someone aspirational like McCaw to take over long term. An anchor player to build a leadership team around. I disagree Ardie should be captain.

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#3437096 24-Nov-2025 10:47

networkn:

Rassie is considered 'magical' as a coach. His win rate with the Boks is 74.5 percent.

Razor is being panned as 'terrible' and has a win rate of 73.9.

Rassie has back to back World Cups, back to back Rugby Championships, etc. Razor has back to back Bledisloe Cups over the weakest Wallabies team in history.

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#3437098 24-Nov-2025 10:58

Earbanean:

Rassie has back to back World Cups, back to back Rugby Championships, etc. Razor has back to back Bledisloe Cups over the weakest Wallabies team in history.

You'd have to say he was pretty lucky to have won the second RWC.

Disagree with weakest Wallabies team in history.

Context matters, but ultimately, you can twist stats to suit whatever narrative you are going for.

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#3437099 24-Nov-2025 11:02

networkn:

I believe Razor made the right decision picking Scooter as captain. The AB's made considerably personnel changes in 2024, having a 'known quantity' as captain is a reasonable idea. Scooter has been pretty decent as captain for the Crusaders.

Having said that, I am not sure he is the right guy moving forward. (Though his is absolutely the right guy to be on the field at 4) I'd really like to see us find a longer term prospect, someone aspirational like McCaw to take over long term. An anchor player to build a leadership team around. I disagree Ardie should be captain.

Kirsty Stanaway asked Jeff Wilson point blank, who are the two best looks in NZ at the moment. He immediately replied Tupou Vaa'i and Fabian Holland. The others agreed. Barrett used to be one of our best two locks, but that's no longer true. Maybe the captaincy is affecting his play and relieving him of that would rejuvenate him. However, IMO no captain should be on the field unless they absolutely justify their spot through form, etc.

Ioane had 80 something caps and had been best in the world earlier in his career, but he was dropped because he was no longer the best player in his position. The same needs to apply across the board - even those who Razor has a close relationship with.

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#3437100 24-Nov-2025 11:03

networkn:

You'd have to say he was pretty lucky to have won the second RWC.

Disagree with weakest Wallabies team in history.

Context matters, but ultimately, you can twist stats to suit whatever narrative you are going for.

So just to be clear, are you saying Robertson is a better international coach than Rassie?

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#3437101 24-Nov-2025 11:06

Earbanean:

So just to be clear, are you saying Robertson is a better international coach than Rassie?

Is that really what you are getting from my comments?

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#3437102 24-Nov-2025 11:18

Earbanean:

Kirsty Stanaway asked Jeff Wilson point blank, who are the two best looks in NZ at the moment. He immediately replied Tupou Vaa'i and Fabian Holland. The others agreed. Barrett used to be one of our best two locks, but that's no longer true. Maybe the captaincy is affecting his play and relieving him of that would rejuvenate him. However, IMO no captain should be on the field unless they absolutely justify their spot through form, etc.

Ioane had 80 something caps and had been best in the world earlier in his career, but he was dropped because he was no longer the best player in his position. The same needs to apply across the board - even those who Razor has a close relationship with.

Jeff Wilson isn't the person I'd be asking that question of. Some of his selection suggestions in the last 3 years have been properly looney. He may not be incorrect in this instance, but he's hardly the benchmark for selection decision IMO.

It should really at this stage, be clear to you, that form isn't the only thing that matters in a team selection. If it was, Reiko would have been done 2+ years ago. Cane got a LOT of flak for what the average punter said was 'underwhelming' performances, but his stats proved completely different.

I've already suggested that perhaps Barrett isn't the right selection for captain moving forward. I don't know if that's true for sure, the end of year review will form that decision I imagine.

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#3437147 24-Nov-2025 15:44

Going back to try leakage, Jordan is normally pretty safe on the wing and did make a few notable tackles that really had to be made. I do wonder if he was also covering an absent fullback this week, as it's not normal to find him out of position, but would need to verify that with another watch of the game. I'd agree with others that if Love was going to be played it should have been at 10, as we have numerous other players who can cover 15 if need be (even an aging BB), but a pretty short list at 10 at the moment. It's going to make for a VERY interesting Super Rugby season next year, as that 10 spot is up for grabs. IMHO DMac played better at 10 than recent BB efforts, but still doesn't sufficiently commit the defense, specifically the loosies, to free up his outsides. Part of that could also be lack of ball speed from 9, but as a halfback in my day, that requires confidence that you know where your 10 (or alternative receiver) will be, and whether they're static or moving. That requires familiarity, good communication from the receiver, and consistent behaviour from 10 in terms of where they'll be and what they'll be doing so you don't have to waste crucial time looking for them. A good 9/10 combo doesn't just happen - it takes time to develop, and when it clicks it makes all the difference to the rest of the backline in terms of ball speed and accuracy. It could be seen when Christie came on in the weekend - 9/10 were a bit shaky at first but then things settled down and (in my opinion anyway) looked crisper than when Ratama was on at 9. We look back to the days of Aaron Smith, and taking nothing away from him, but he had the luxury of relatively consistent and stable selections at 10, who had the same luxury of regularly having him at 9 - established and consistent combinations. Of the current crop, Roigard is automatic first choice, and I'd pick Preston next purely for the speed of his delivery and support play. If Roigard is out injured, Preston starts, then maybe Hotham on once things loosen up and he can play the sniping Roigard role.

On another note, did anyone watch Wallace Sititi in the first half? He fell off a couple of half-hearted tackles, and spent quite a lot of time fringing and just generally wandering around lost. I know he's a loosie, but that was too loose - he only really looked interested with ball in hand, but even then he was receiving it he was relatively static rather than coming from more depth for impact. He may have received a talking to at half time, as he was a bit more active after the break, but his work rate was sub-standard at that level. While maybe not the impact with ball in hand, I'd go for Christian Lio-Willie any day, as he works all day!

Box kicking and other woes - many ask why dop we kick it away? It's purely because we don't trust ourselves to retain the ball in the tackle if we try to run it. That points to a lack of a plan in the backline in terms of support for whatever move is called, loosies who are too slow to the breakdown to secure it, and a reluctance of all to roll up their sleeves and support the tackled player if they happen to be first there. Granted it is a bit of a lottery at the tackle these days, so often a 50/50 kick is as good an option as we'll get, but it's also an admission of a lack of confidence and organisation.

Finally, what's wrong with the AB's? I believe it's an obsession with picking the (historically) best individuals rather than the best team. Also, the NZ public seems to believe that public opinion picks the team, and it's starting to look like that might be the case to an extent, as Razor seems to be trying to keep everyone happy. The difference between Super Rugby and International level is that the coach has a much longer time with, and control over, the squad. A reason the Crusaders have been so successful over the years is team culture, and the willingness to (almost) die for the cause, and that desperation seems to be missing in the ABs. People are lauding Jamie Joseph and his work with the AB-XV, but if you look at the AB XV lineup versus England A it was Crusaders at 8, 9, 12, 13, 14 & 15 with a couple more up front, and 2 more Crusaders as backs reserves for 10 and 12/13. Of those, other than Sevu Reece, all are AB discards or very fringe players. Draw your own conclusions, but it's something that needs to be looked at. Maybe it's time to ditch a few more big names from the ABs, pick combinations rather than individuals, get some consistency into the selections, and get a bit of momentum happening?

Lessons learnt from this year?

What lock crisis? As it turns out, there is depth if we're prepared to give some young chaps a run. This could potentially be extended to a few more positions.
When the horse starting to tire, there's no point continuing to flog it. There were several historically great ABs that should not have been in the team this year. They didn't show sufficient Super Rugby form to be compelling selections, and carried that lack of form through to AB duty. The "class is permanent" sentiment just doesn't cut it at International level.
There's work to be done on team culture and/or mental strength, as we looked bereft of desire and belief at least a couple of times this year. Scott's had his shot as captain, and Ardie is not the answer, as he was on the paddock as a senior and could have stepped up if he had anything to add when motivation was required, his decision making at times can be questionable, and he just can't manage a Ref like Richie and Kieran could. I'm not sure who that person is though, as we don't really have anyone that can cover the multiple roles of physical presence, motivator, lawyer, and politician.

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#3437213 24-Nov-2025 16:55

So, heres another thing from the weekend.

Ireland vs SA. It was a horrible horrible match. If you feel like SA are so brilliant, this is the match to watch for your reality check. Ireland got 5 cards, including a RED card, and SA only just managed to beat them. I understand the scoreline shows an 11 point difference, but honestly, SA were probably lucky not to have conceded a card in the last few minutes of that match, and then the gap would have been 5-7 points smaller. It's not inconvievable for Ireland to have won that match despite 5 cards.

Ireland aren't the team they were in 2022/23, and despite 5 cards, could have beaten a full strength Springboks team.

You'd expect that any tier 1 nation would put a team down to some form of record hiding with 12 guys on the field for a chunk of time.

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#3437331 25-Nov-2025 08:50

More random thoughts. I've been reading and listening to a few blogs, with some different perspectives.

We put 52 points, with 13 starting personel changes, on an international opponent, in the last test of a long and challenging year. Wales did not lie down and take it.

We built some depth.

We won most of our games.

Our defence issues against Wales, I think were simply about unfamilar combinations and a lack of trust from some players, that the player inside them would make the tackle.

Generally, I'd say our defensive issues are in line with our other issues, around communication and connection. Simply put, we need a restructure in our coaching and leadership. Less cooks in the kitchen, improved clearer communication, and a focus around 'everything starts with why'.

Why do we play? Why do we get up off the ground as quickly as we can and get back in the defensive line. There feels like there isn't enough 'care'.

One of the big mistakes that Mitchell made as head coach, was he removed access between the AB's and the people. Access to AB's was difficult. He separated them as 'elite' Ted changed that as his number 1 priority. He got the players to the people and let the players see what it meant to the fans for them to play, and play well.

I do think however, that as players, when you see what a bunch of negative nancies we are as a fan base, it must be hard to see. When nothing is good enough, when every mistake gets a page in the Herald, when every match that doesn't get won by 30 points has half the fans calling for the head of the coach, it can't be helping. SA fans annoy the ever loving snot out of me often, and there is some criticism, but the connection between the players and their fans, is really strong.

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#3437374 25-Nov-2025 11:37

Moving off topic slightly, managed to secure myself 4 tickets yesterday to the opening game of Super Round at One NZ Stadium. Which of course also doubles as the first Crusaders home game at the new stadium. I missed the first allocation of tickets back in October and the last 40% sold out in 2 hours yesterday.

It will be quite an occasion for me having also been at the very last game 14th May 2010 at AMI Stadium (Lancaster Park), I was also at the very first Crusaders game at the new (temporary) AMI stadium on 24th March 2012. Will be very special to have come pretty much full circle into what should be their hopefully VERY long term home.

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#3437429 25-Nov-2025 12:56

JPNZ:

Moving off topic slightly, managed to secure myself 4 tickets yesterday to the opening game of Super Round at One NZ Stadium. Which of course also doubles as the first Crusaders home game at the new stadium. I missed the first allocation of tickets back in October and the last 40% sold out in 2 hours yesterday.

It will be quite an occasion for me having also been at the very last game 14th May 2010 at AMI Stadium (Lancaster Park), I was also at the very first Crusaders game at the new (temporary) AMI stadium on 24th March 2012. Will be very special to have come pretty much full circle into what should be their hopefully VERY long term home.

That's super cool. I was tempted to fly down from Auckland for it, but haven't managed to find a moment to try and get tickets and it seems like I left it too late.

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#3437438 25-Nov-2025 13:54

networkn:

That's super cool. I was tempted to fly down from Auckland for it, but haven't managed to find a moment to try and get tickets and it seems like I left it too late.

Thanks, I believe the only way to get Friday night tickets now is the very small number of 3 day passes going. Then of course you have to go everyday to be cost effective.

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#3437517 25-Nov-2025 21:10

networkn:

We built some depth.

We won most of our games.

When nothing is good enough, when every mistake gets a page in the Herald

The all blacks cannot even rotate or experiment with their match day squad without the Herald and others roasting the players as "dropped" etc.

A big part, I believe holding the all blacks back now is how the first 15 is perceived in NZ and central contracting. How star players dont want bench spots and how the bench is implemented.

RSA & ENG for are examples of how they used the bench to fill any weaknesses they had and build depth.

They dropped quite a few games over the last few years in the process but now reap the rewards.

I especially like how RSA moved alot of they key players and starters to the bench, Marx, Kwagga, le roux.

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