Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Earbanean

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#3528037 15-Sep-2026 14:44

networkn:

I believe this is worse under Rennie than Robertson, though I haven't sifted through stats to back it up.

I'd imagine anyone who watched the games in Wellington and Twickenham would beg to differ. Having said that, the defence from the end of Soweto and most of Baltimore was not good. We seemed to lose it from when Savea went off in Soweto and we were definitely below full strength in Baltimore. So those kind of indicate organisation issues. Hard to know whether losing someone like Tupaea was significant, or maybe the number of changes in the backs in Soweto.

Obviously there has been criticism of Umaga, which may or may not be deserved. However, it's interesting that the people criticising Umaga as defence coach seem to be rather quiet on Jason Ryan as scrum coach, even after our scrum has been repeatedly destroyed over a number of tests.

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#3528040 15-Sep-2026 14:48

LookingUp:

Given that we weren't going to out muscle them, that was really our only chance. However, the risk is that we become isolated and they either turn us over, or get a penalty at the breakdown, which happened far too often after Test #1. In test #1 we did outflank them several times to score on the wings, which was the difference in that game, and one they wised up to from there on out. Once our wings were clipped (so to speak) we were sitting ducks.

If we're going to play helter-skelter rugby we MUST have the fastest forwards on the paddock, and EVERYBODY in the team needs to dive in and protect the ball if they're 1st, 2nd or 3rd to the breakdown. There were some who did, but there were others that were a little too hesitant, and that cost us.

I'm also still at a loss as to why we simply can't compete in the air. That they knew (and now everyone else does) they could bomb away and retrieve a very healthy percentage of the ball back gave them a huge advantage.

I agree with your comments and they reflect earlier comments I made around us being as vulnerable when we make a linebreak, as they are, due to the fact our cleaners aren't keeping up. It's a fundamental flaw in the plan and astonishing to me it's gone unresolved for months (and actually years).

It must have been the third test where I think we did adjust a little, and you found some of our backs (namely Love) over the tackled player, trying to buy time for the bigger guys to arrive. It's not ideal, but beats what had been happening before. The problem is, then your play maker, and first reciever are out of the line, so someone else needs to step in.

I am actually tempted to time stamp comment some of the sections where what I am seeing is observable.

I haven't seen the stats (the ones I have found were clearly wrong) around the number of times we competed for a high ball and won it cleanly, but my guestimate was we failed on our own or SA's ball > 90% of the time. That's just crazy.

The thing is, there were phases where the rugby we played was really fast but not helter skelter and we were still finding the edge pretty easily, and we combined that with some beautiful kicking, which gained us territory, and turned them around. It was the best Rugby I'd seen us play under Rennie. Nek Minnit, we were going away from that and back to being turned over trying to move the ball faster than was neccessary.

You are right about not being able to compete with the forwards on size and strength (though I think it's more about technique myself), and that is why we are trying to play fast, but slightly slower, more accurate, I am almost certain, from watching them do it, would put them under more pressure for longer.

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#3528041 15-Sep-2026 14:57

Earbanean:

I'd imagine anyone who watched the games in Wellington and Twickenham would beg to differ. Having said that, the defence from the end of Soweto and most of Baltimore was not good. We seemed to lose it from when Savea went off in Soweto and we were definitely below full strength in Baltimore. So those kind of indicate organisation issues. Hard to know whether losing someone like Tupaea was significant, or maybe the number of changes in the backs in Soweto.

You really are obsessed over those two games. Wellington in particular was an aberration. I'd encourage you to rewatch it, without a bent to trying to blame Robertson for it. There is clearly something wrong physically with that team that night.

Twickenham was more concerning for me, but again they were two matches from a tenure.

Glad to hear you talk about Baltimore, because to me, the back end of that game felt similar to the last 20 of Wellington.

Obviously there has been criticism of Umaga, which may or may not be deserved. However, it's interesting that the people criticising Umaga as defence coach seem to be rather quiet on Jason Ryan as scrum coach, even after our scrum has been repeatedly destroyed over a number of tests.

You are right, I imagine internally there will be heat on Ryan, it's fair he is given an examination. Hard to know what's happening there. There was a lot of talk about the scrum, but very few impartial technical discussions. I saw a bit of one by James Parsons, but it didn't really last long and he looked like he didn't want to say too much (probably out of fear for the relationship with the coaches, see my previous post addressing that).

One would argue there is more reason to be concerned about our defence than our scrum. Leaking 35 points to a Provincial B team is far more concerning (to me at least) than being unable to hold our own against the worlds biggest, most powerful scrum. It's probably one of the most technical parts of the game, and as we saw when degroot was clearly not 100% right, a small difference makes a big difference.

If Ryan has to go, because he's not delivering, I am OK with that, but it's pretty far down the list of things that need fixing at the AB's.

Earbanean

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#3528047 15-Sep-2026 15:31

networkn:

Hard to know what's happening there.

If I was to cherry pick one sentence to sum up the scrum issues, then it's this - and it's not just you. I certainly don't know what's happening and I was a tight forward to a reasonable level and IMO if people opining are being honest, well north of 90% of them don't know either.

Unfortunately, I think even a lot of the refs also fall into this category. If different refs policing essentially the same scrum are coming up with completely different interpretations, then we have a problem. However, one reasonably constant interpretation seems to be that the dominant scrum gets the benefit of the doubt with penalty calls.

It'll be good when Tamaiti Williams is back. Also, the second row makes a material difference and Scott Barrett will probably help there. I'd love to see someone like 140 kg Saula Ma'u be further developed to test standard, although in his case, that's quite a stretch at the mo.

lachlanw

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#3528145 15-Sep-2026 20:25

Earbanean:

networkn:

I believe this is worse under Rennie than Robertson, though I haven't sifted through stats to back it up.

We seemed to lose it from when Savea went off in Soweto and we were definitely below full strength in Baltimore. So those kind of indicate organisation issues. Hard to know whether losing someone like Tupaea was significant, or maybe the number of changes in the backs in Soweto.

The goal line defence seemed a bit off in Baltimore, Darry's miss on the half was poor, ALB and DeGroot were not quite aligned on De Allende. Likewise Darry and Blackadder on PSDT

Having said that they were averaging 5 points an entry into opposition 22 so are obviously extremely adept in getting a points result that close in.

lachlanw

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#3528157 15-Sep-2026 21:01

networkn:

with 57% win rate, Rennie becomes the coach with the lowest winning ratio for the AB's in the modern era.

"In the modern era after seven games since the last coach"

Fixed that for you.

If you throw in two unconvincing wins vs an understrength England and a loss at home to Argentina I assume there was the same level or higher of scrutiny being applied to Robertson

2024-07-06 England 16 15
2024-07-13 England 24 17
2024-07-19 Fiji 47 5
2024-08-10 Argentina 30 38
2024-08-17 Argentina 42 10
2024-08-31 South Africa 27 31
2024-09-07 South Africa 12 18

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

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#3528159 15-Sep-2026 21:37

Earbanean:

If I was to cherry pick one sentence to sum up the scrum issues, then it's this - and it's not just you. I certainly don't know what's happening and I was a tight forward to a reasonable level and IMO if people opining are being honest, well north of 90% of them don't know either.

Unfortunately, I think even a lot of the refs also fall into this category. If different refs policing essentially the same scrum are coming up with completely different interpretations, then we have a problem. However, one reasonably constant interpretation seems to be that the dominant scrum gets the benefit of the doubt with penalty calls.

It'll be good when Tamaiti Williams is back. Also, the second row makes a material difference and Scott Barrett will probably help there. I'd love to see someone like 140 kg Saula Ma'u be further developed to test standard, although in his case, that's quite a stretch at the mo.

I agree, we have missed Tamati Williams, though it's hard to know (and I suspect not) if that would have been enough. Whilst I like Scooter, also hard to know if he would be the difference, I think he's different to our other locks (that can play 6), but I think he gives us a bit of steel, it feels like we might have been missing. As someone will almost certainly point out, 'but but cards and penalties', but at his best, he's pretty compelling. Agree on the refereeing, I feel that was definitely a factor, but again, given there were 3 refs and we fell foul of them all 3 games...

It could just be, we were bested by a better scrum, though getting pushed over our own try line by the Lions was a pretty sobering moment, and it's not like our scrum has been great this year overall.

I am however, certain, we should/could have won at least tests 2 and 3, even with our scrum the way it was.

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