Trans-Tasman bubble (Quarantine-Free Travel)

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#2733958 24-Jun-2021 17:36

Dingbatt:

dafman:

So the frequent pauses to trans-tasman travel, and today 13 Wellingtonians pulled off a plane bound for the Cooks, I reckon Christopher Walken had better odds in the Deerhunter than Kiwis booking overseas holidays at this time.

You book your flights, accommodation, arrange annual leave, put the cat in the cattery, farm out the kids, build up anticipation, ... only to have to unwind all of this at no notice. Why bother?

We were warned when the bubbles were formed that this sort of thing could happen, and unless they’ve been living under a rock, people should have planned accordingly. The bubble has allowed people who were willing to accept the risk of disruption to get on with life. Unfortunately it also lets people who get sick on their holiday, box on with their plans totally disregarding the thousands it may affect.

To answer your final question, if it’s too much trouble for you, don’t bother. There is no compulsion to go on an overseas holiday. But for Wellingtonians they shouldn’t be going elsewhere in NZ either.

If you wait the estimated 5 to 10 years for the coronavirus to flush away, I’m sure you’ll be fine.

Yeah, people who travelled over there took their own risk. It is not as though they are abandoned in a war zone, they will be able to cope in Oz. But I wonder if they will have the pay for the 14 day isolation on their return, if that is going to be needed in the future? We don't want this Delta variant or the newer + version in NZ, if it isn't here already. It is likely that is what it is. It will be interesting to see if sewage testing pick up any cases too.

Vaccination will hopefully make this virus a non event in a few years, and we may just have to cope being vaccinated every couple of years as it mutates.

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#2734076 25-Jun-2021 08:44

I'm still struggling to understand why the border is open for anything other than cargo shipments, never mind a quarantine free bubble for holiday weekends.

Shut the door, lock the door, throw away the key. I'm 100% fine with us not letting a single person into the country for the next 5-10 years.

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#2734126 25-Jun-2021 10:20

Lias:

I'm still struggling to understand why the border is open for anything other than cargo shipments, never mind a quarantine free bubble for holiday weekends.

Shut the door, lock the door, throw away the key. I'm 100% fine with us not letting a single person into the country for the next 5-10 years.

There wouldn't be a country left to live in.

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#2734129 25-Jun-2021 10:22

Lias:

I'm still struggling to understand why the border is open for anything other than cargo shipments, never mind a quarantine free bubble for holiday weekends.

Shut the door, lock the door, throw away the key. I'm 100% fine with us not letting a single person into the country for the next 5-10 years.

How much Tax are you prepared to pay for that privilege?

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#2734220 25-Jun-2021 11:36

networkn:

Lias:

I'm still struggling to understand why the border is open for anything other than cargo shipments, never mind a quarantine free bubble for holiday weekends.

Shut the door, lock the door, throw away the key. I'm 100% fine with us not letting a single person into the country for the next 5-10 years.

How much Tax are you prepared to pay for that privilege?

The economy has been booming whilst the borders have been pretty much closed. So I suspect that you would get a tax reduction rather than an increase.

GV27

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#2734249 25-Jun-2021 12:40

frankv:

The economy has been booming whilst the borders have been pretty much closed. So I suspect that you would get a tax reduction rather than an increase.

Guess you missed the bit of the pandemic where it turned out we were hugely reliant on passenger flights to get freight into the country.

The economy is booming because wages are basically stuck and low interest rates drove up house prices and debt levels.

It works, until it doesn't.

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Dingbatt

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#2734275 25-Jun-2021 13:17

frankv:

The economy has been booming whilst the borders have been pretty much closed. So I suspect that you would get a tax reduction rather than an increase.

Yep. $100bn of borrowed money shoshing around in the economy will have that effect.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Dingbatt

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#2734277 25-Jun-2021 13:19

Lias:

I'm still struggling to understand why the border is open for anything other than cargo shipments, never mind a quarantine free bubble for holiday weekends.

Shut the door, lock the door, throw away the key. I'm 100% fine with us not letting a single person into the country for the next 5-10 years.

Yes, we could be just like that country run by the ‘Little Rocket Man’.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2734281 25-Jun-2021 13:26

Dingbatt:

frankv:

The economy has been booming whilst the borders have been pretty much closed. So I suspect that you would get a tax reduction rather than an increase.

Yep. $100bn of borrowed money shoshing around in the economy will have that effect.

Not really, to the extent that you infer. By giving money to businesses, you allow those businesses to survive and pay wages, which then buy goods and services. Thats not quite borrowing and shoshing money around. If it was, we already have done that for generations, known as benefits. People who dont or cant work dont die, we give them money. Just as is the case in the Covid response, to the more affected sector, business.

I guess we could have told everyone to suck it up. Bad luck if you don't run a supermarket

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#2734282 25-Jun-2021 13:27

I don't have an issue with the bubble, but the bumbling around timing for pausing it is really annoying me.

As soon as a country you have a Travel Bubble with announces a community transmission case, all travel should be paused until they at least have a trace on the source and can 'contain' it. Not days and days later.

The risk might be small to leave it open, but the consequences are huge.

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#2734340 25-Jun-2021 13:39

I believe that keeping the border closed until we have vaccinated at least 70% of the population is logical especially so because of the Delta variant. Anything else is playing Russian roulette and gambling with peoples lives for profit. If the Delta variant takes hold here the damage done to the economy with be massive and eclipse any damage from keeping the bubbles closed. We can recover from recession we cannot recover from death.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Dingbatt

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#2734342 25-Jun-2021 13:42

tdgeek:

Not really, to the extent that you infer. By giving money to businesses, you allow those businesses to survive and pay wages, which then buy goods and services. Thats not quite borrowing and shoshing money around. If it was, we already have done that for generations, known as benefits. People who dont or cant work dont die, we give them money. Just as is the case in the Covid response, to the more affected sector, business.

I guess we could have told everyone to suck it up. Bad luck if you don't run a supermarket

No, my point isn’t that we didn’t need to do it (we did). It’s people saying “look at our booming economy” should understand we are borrowing from our children and grandchildren to get through this.

And generally, welfare comes out of taxes not borrowing. Unless you are implying that the government is going to pay me back my taxes because they only “borrowed” them?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2734360 25-Jun-2021 13:52

Dingbatt:

No, my point isn’t that we didn’t need to do it (we did). It’s people saying “look at our booming economy” should understand we are borrowing from our children and grandchildren to get through this.

And generally, welfare comes out of taxes not borrowing. Unless you are implying that the government is going to pay me back my taxes because they only “borrowed” them?

Yes, the booming economy is a slight stretch. People are still being paid wages so they still spend and they can largely only spend in NZ, as distinct from in Bali etc

Welfare comes from taxes, yes, but this extra is also coming from our taxes, it just has to be future taxes as its too large. Same as if we didn't support businesses and thus wage earners, same thing would happen, we just pay benefits direct to the people instead of the employer on a temporary basis. That latter case would be long term not a matter of weeks, and compounded by a plummeting tax take

But yes, booming is an over statement. Better than expected is what it is, topped up with what would normally have been Bali dollars. When NZ opens up, retail will need to look out, it will be quiet as a mouse as those dollars head offshore

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#2734417 25-Jun-2021 14:06

Getting a bit off topic, so I won’t be commenting on the general economics any more in this thread.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2734433 25-Jun-2021 14:34

It's becoming pretty clear that the NSW outbreak is going to be fairly big. And it has spread to Victoria...

Given that it is the highly contagious Delta variant, and that NZ only had about 3 months before we get a decent chunk of the population vaccinated, I think we should be being extremely cautious.

I think pausing the entire travel bubble for 3-4 weeks (possibly excluding WA who have been very cautious to date) would be appropriate.

At the very least, we should put in place both pre-departure testing & on arrival testing (not required to isolate and wait for results). Cira $300 a person in testing (paid by the traveler) could save us from additional economically costly lock-down's.

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