Auckland Transport Hop card - look out for errors

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#1030765 24-Apr-2014 18:40

mattwnz: Is hop card the same thing as snapper, which we have down here in wellington? I have never had any problem with these systems, and they have been operating down here for many years.

I've had a number of charging issues with snapper, however you have to go to one of the few snapper service centres or have a feeder to get any refunds back on your card.

Going slightly O/T - The AT / Snapper Hop situation is a bit of a screw up. The Thalas system is meant to be suitable for nationwide implementation which NZTA should be looking after but I've yet to see any other regions outside of Auckland so far.
Hopefully it will reach Wellington and integrated ticketing will be rolled out. I think that the Greater Wellington regional council is awaiting for the Auckland system to be bedded in - Integrated fares are coming shortly so maybe us Wellingtonians will not have to carry multiple cards and cash in the near future.

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#1030770 24-Apr-2014 19:08

knoydart: I think that the Greater Wellington regional council is awaiting for the Auckland system to be bedded in - Integrated fares are coming shortly so maybe us Wellingtonians will not have to carry multiple cards and cash in the near future.

I think Wellington are doing the same for the super city, as it looks like most of the cities councils are all going to be merged into one here too. Not sure if Auckland was a great example for that either.

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#1030771 24-Apr-2014 19:09

I have had more problems with the old Snapper system than I've had with the new HOP card. The only thing I would like to do and you could with the Sapper one is to name each card. I emailed the AT help desk but never got a reply.

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#1030779 24-Apr-2014 19:46

I had a number of problems in the first few weeks, both charging me more and charging me less so I think it evened out in the end. I did do one of the requests on their website but not sure what happened with that.

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#1030801 24-Apr-2014 20:39

The reason behind using an integrated system run by Auckland transport and Thales. Is so the interest earned on the money loaded on everyones HOP cards (and the money remaining on expired / abandoned cards ect) goes to Auckland transport. Instead of to Snapper. Also at least 1 of the other bus companies (Might be Ritchies, don't know for sure) Said that they will never implement a ticketing system owned by their main competitor. Since they will then know commercially sensitive info like how many passengers use each bus and at what times ect.

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#1030805 24-Apr-2014 20:48

Aredwood: The reason behind using an integrated system run by Auckland transport and Thales. Is so the interest earned on the money loaded on everyones HOP cards (and the money remaining on expired / abandoned cards ect) goes to Auckland transport. Instead of to Snapper. Also at least 1 of the other bus companies (Might be Ritchies, don't know for sure) Said that they will never implement a ticketing system owned by their main competitor. Since they will then know commercially sensitive info like how many passengers use each bus and at what times ect.

But now Ritchies have moved their Whangarei bus ticketing to Snapper!

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#1030982 25-Apr-2014 10:44

knoydart:
mattwnz: Is hop card the same thing as snapper, which we have down here in wellington? I have never had any problem with these systems, and they have been operating down here for many years.

I've had a number of charging issues with snapper, however you have to go to one of the few snapper service centres or have a feeder to get any refunds back on your card.

Going slightly O/T - The AT / Snapper Hop situation is a bit of a screw up. The Thalas system is meant to be suitable for nationwide implementation which NZTA should be looking after but I've yet to see any other regions outside of Auckland so far.
Hopefully it will reach Wellington and integrated ticketing will be rolled out. I think that the Greater Wellington regional council is awaiting for the Auckland system to be bedded in - Integrated fares are coming shortly so maybe us Wellingtonians will not have to carry multiple cards and cash in the near future.

The NZ Transport Agency paid a not insignificant amount towards the Thales HOP implementation. Once Auckland has completed the rollout, ownership of the HOP system will be transferred to NZ Transport Ticketing Ltd, a subsidiary of NZTA; who will roll it out to the rest of NZ. It won't be optional. (Say bye bye to Snapper, Wellington. You're getting this mess too).

mattwnz:
knoydart: I think that the Greater Wellington regional council is awaiting for the Auckland system to be bedded in - Integrated fares are coming shortly so maybe us Wellingtonians will not have to carry multiple cards and cash in the near future.

I think Wellington are doing the same for the super city, as it looks like most of the cities councils are all going to be merged into one here too. Not sure if Auckland was a great example for that either.

At this point, we may as well just reform New Zealand as a federation of states with the number of cities merging. We'll only have four left by the end of the decade!

sbiddle:
Aredwood: The reason behind using an integrated system run by Auckland transport and Thales. Is so the interest earned on the money loaded on everyones HOP cards (and the money remaining on expired / abandoned cards ect) goes to Auckland transport. Instead of to Snapper. Also at least 1 of the other bus companies (Might be Ritchies, don't know for sure) Said that they will never implement a ticketing system owned by their main competitor. Since they will then know commercially sensitive info like how many passengers use each bus and at what times ect.

But now Ritchies have moved their Whangarei bus ticketing to Snapper!

Infratil isn't a competing bus company in Whangarei though. They are in Auckland.

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#1031011 25-Apr-2014 11:46

robjg63:
mattwnz: Is hop card the same thing as snapper, which we have down here in wellington? I have never had any problem with these systems.

Some time later Auckland transport decided to go with Thales (A french company) as system supplier for Ferries/trains and other bus companies not using the Snapper version.
There was then a big meltdown and lots of finger pointing - Snapper said Thales didnt let them have access to the API etc so they couldnt integrate etc etc.

I think it's more like "Snapper is not an Auckland company. We rather give business to a large French company than to a New Zealand Wellington-based company."

Seriously, there's no good explanation for this decision that I've read/heard.

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#1031016 25-Apr-2014 11:54

freitasm:

I think it's more like "Snapper is not an Auckland company. We rather give business to a large French company than to a New Zealand Wellington-based company."

Seriously, there's no good explanation for this decision that I've read/heard.

From what I I heard about the tendering process, one of the factors was who had control of the float on the cards. Snapper's bid was at no cost but they wanted control of the float. NZTA wanted control and the Thalas system offered that. The Auckland situation has certain politicians involved (at a National level) who lobbied for Snapper to get a second bite at the Auckland cherry just before the rugby world cup in 2011. Also the access to competitors route data was something the non NZ bus Auckland operators were not keen on either.

Snapper maybe a Wellington company but it is based on the Korean T money system and processing for Snapper transactions still occurs with the T Money systems apparently.

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#1031020 25-Apr-2014 12:00

knoydart: Also the access to competitors route data was something the non NZ bus Auckland operators were not keen on either.

This has been said many times, but I still think as a business it would be a disservice for themselves to give access to this information to their parent company. Sounds more like FUD from competitors trying to sell a ticketing system than anything else.

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#1031022 25-Apr-2014 12:06

freitasm:
knoydart: Also the access to competitors route data was something the non NZ bus Auckland operators were not keen on either.

This has been said many times, but I still think as a business it would be a disservice for themselves to give access to this information to their parent company. Sounds more like FUD from competitors trying to sell a ticketing system than anything else.

You make a very good point. The but is that the other operators in Auckland don't have a contactless payment company in their portfolios and should be agnostic to a ticketing solution as long as it works. If it was Thalas spinning it, then yes FUD all over

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#1031037 25-Apr-2014 12:17

To be honest, all the bus companies were using the same ticketing terminals anyway (Wayfarer ticketing from the UK) so I'm not sure why they didn't go to that company and see whether they could propose something. It would have been much cheaper considering much less capital equipment to replace.

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#1046913 17-May-2014 12:09

Well, I found out the hard way that they will ping you a fine even if on a monthly card now.......

Hopped on usual bus in Takapuna, tagged on, got to Constellation station and saw the express had just pulled in, so tagged off, and went to tag onto the express - was packed and driver said "anyone with a card, tag on at the rear door and get a seat there" - so I did (few of us did), the reader beeped as usual and lit up green.
Off we went.... got to my stop, tagged off (again, beeped and went green) and off I went...

Next day, couldnt tag on. Driver let me stay on anyway as she recognized me and knew I had a monthly pass - jumped online and checked the account, and I was $10.08 in debt (I always have a zero $ balance) therefore the card had been disabled. Called AT, who couldnt tell me anything "because it takes 24hrs to update".
Put some funds on my card so it would activate the monthly pass again.

Next day checked online and saw it claimed I had tagged off 2x on the same bus - had me scratching my head for a moment until I realized what had happened - the rear door reader of the express, was one way only - tag off. So all tags were "off". Obviously the driver didnt know this and I queried it with AT who said that yes, the readers could be manipulated in that way, and credited me the $10.08 ($5.04 each failed tag)

So I now have $10 credit which I'll never use but guess its handy to have in case their system ***** up again.

Its extremely frustrating that I cannot see my transactions for 24hrs (or AT staff) yet the system is quick enough to fine me within hours.

The system needs a serious kick in the pants for it to be more user friendly.... oh, and annoying you cant get any info about your monthly pass online, as in which date it expires....

XPD / Gavin

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#1046925 17-May-2014 12:27

xpd: Well, I found out the hard way that they will ping you a fine even if on a monthly card now.......

Hopped on usual bus in Takapuna, tagged on, got to Constellation station and saw the express had just pulled in, so tagged off, and went to tag onto the express - was packed and driver said "anyone with a card, tag on at the rear door and get a seat there" - so I did (few of us did), the reader beeped as usual and lit up green.
Off we went.... got to my stop, tagged off (again, beeped and went green) and off I went...

Next day, couldnt tag on. Driver let me stay on anyway as she recognized me and knew I had a monthly pass - jumped online and checked the account, and I was $10.08 in debt (I always have a zero $ balance) therefore the card had been disabled. Called AT, who couldnt tell me anything "because it takes 24hrs to update".
Put some funds on my card so it would activate the monthly pass again.

Next day checked online and saw it claimed I had tagged off 2x on the same bus - had me scratching my head for a moment until I realized what had happened - the rear door reader of the express, was one way only - tag off. So all tags were "off". Obviously the driver didnt know this and I queried it with AT who said that yes, the readers could be manipulated in that way, and credited me the $10.08 ($5.04 each failed tag)

So I now have $10 credit which I'll never use but guess its handy to have in case their system ***** up again.

Its extremely frustrating that I cannot see my transactions for 24hrs (or AT staff) yet the system is quick enough to fine me within hours.

The system needs a serious kick in the pants for it to be more user friendly.... oh, and annoying you cant get any info about your monthly pass online, as in which date it expires....

I wonder why they couldn't just make the readers "both ways" on all machines?

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#1046929 17-May-2014 12:39

I've had more transaction errors in my favour than against. I've noticed when there is a driver change part way along the route, if the new driver (I assume) doesn't log into the ticketing machine properly the system thinks you've never left Auckland CBD.

I've gone from the city to takanini and city to glenfield and both trips cost me the inner city fare, minus the $0.50 transfer discount so $0.40 in all - plus it shows the tag on and tag off locations in the city.

despite it's faults though I'm glad we finally have one integrated ticketing solution in Auckland - I don't care if it's snapper, tuna, hop or jump - finally I don't have to wait for a particular bus company who accepts my ticket to turn up or have multiple tickets for different services eg train/bus/ferry. Auckland has waited long enough for this.

/ben

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