Germanwings Flight 9525

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#1274297 31-Mar-2015 13:08

I am waiting on that flight data recorder being found in order to rule out mechanical failure before jumping to conclusions about the pilot.

frankv

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#1274379 31-Mar-2015 13:55

Geektastic:
DarthKermit: In retrospect, it would have been a lot better if another person had been inside with the suicidal pilot. He/she might have been able to save the situation. A much higher chance of a successful outcome than what actually occurred.

In retrospect, it would have been a lot better if that pilot had done the world a favour and jumped off a tall building, only taking his life and not 149 innocent people.

In retrospect it would have been better if he had sought help, had treatment and returned to a normal life...!

I think of particular interest is how the system that is supposed to prevent this situation precipitated it...

A pilot is not allowed to fly whilst on anti-depressants (except in Australia, I think). Admitting to depression to his employer effectively means an end to his airline career (his dream job), and an end to his earning (with very likely a huge amount of debt). So it would be very tempting to hide treatment for depression, and/or to stop any treatment early. Add to this his potentially career-ending eyesight issues, a newly pregnant girlfriend who is leaving him, and you can see that he is in an overwhelming amount of psychological difficulty, and doesn't have the resources to cope with it.

Under the circumstances, I don't think the outcome is surprising.

shk292

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#1274404 31-Mar-2015 14:07

How about this as a suggested change to the door lock system - two switches in the cockpit, at opposite sides (ie not reachable by the same person). Both need to be pressed within 0.5s of each other to activate the lockout function.

DravidDavid

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#1274434 31-Mar-2015 14:29

shk292: How about this as a suggested change to the door lock system - two switches in the cockpit, at opposite sides (ie not reachable by the same person). Both need to be pressed within 0.5s of each other to activate the lockout function.

Or an over-ride key pad that can't be disabled.

shk292

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#1274443 31-Mar-2015 14:32

DravidDavid:
shk292: How about this as a suggested change to the door lock system - two switches in the cockpit, at opposite sides (ie not reachable by the same person). Both need to be pressed within 0.5s of each other to activate the lockout function.

Or an over-ride key pad that can't be disabled.

But, the problem with that is the 'terrorist with a gun to the head of a kid' scenario where a crew member outside the flight deck is persuaded to open the door. If you want to make that impossible, you need a system which cannot be overridden from outside. But based on this incident, it mustn't be operable by a single person

DravidDavid

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#1274469 31-Mar-2015 14:44

shk292:
DravidDavid:
shk292: How about this as a suggested change to the door lock system - two switches in the cockpit, at opposite sides (ie not reachable by the same person). Both need to be pressed within 0.5s of each other to activate the lockout function.

Or an over-ride key pad that can't be disabled.

But, the problem with that is the 'terrorist with a gun to the head of a kid' scenario where a crew member outside the flight deck is persuaded to open the door. If you want to make that impossible, you need a system which cannot be overridden from outside. But based on this incident, it mustn't be operable by a single person

There is no getting around the gun to the kid's head situation. If someone wants to get in and are willing to go to extreme lengths such as that, they will always get in if the pilot is willing to let them in.

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#1274538 31-Mar-2015 15:50

All of this is a bit like selecting 'lock override' after the horse had bolted. Like a lot of things in life you can't predict and protect from a really determined nutter. They will just find a different way.
The airline pilots that I know just want to get home to their families each night. Therefore the simple act of having a stewardess go into the cockpit if one of the pilots needs to pop out for a pee would be sufficient. No need for even more complicated systems than those already in use because you know who will pay for any hardware modifications don't you?

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frankv

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#1274573 31-Mar-2015 16:03

Dingbatt: No need for even more complicated systems than those already in use because you know who will pay for any hardware modifications don't you?

And you know that, since it's aviation, it will cost an absolute fortune, and will take *years* to design and implement.

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#1274595 31-Mar-2015 16:50

The reason Aviation is so safe is because every incident is recorded and analysed. Hence the problem with Malaysia 370 (there is no aircraft to analyse) There will be a mitigation to this. The mitigation solution for MH370 disappearing is already in process.

Increased medical surveillance is probably on the cards. One "rogue" probably now means more bureaucracy.

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#1274620 31-Mar-2015 16:57

I have a feeling Malaysia 370 and this tragedy has a similar circumstance ..

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#1274912 1-Apr-2015 08:28

Perhaps it's time for civilian pilots to wear fighter Pilot style Flight suits with internal catheter bags so that no one need leave the cockpit....

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#1274915 1-Apr-2015 08:40

That might not be enough for long haul flights. Ensuite in the cockpit, perhaps? ;-)

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#1274935 1-Apr-2015 09:10

Geektastic: Perhaps it's time for civilian pilots to wear fighter Pilot style Flight suits with internal catheter bags so that no one need leave the cockpit....

Or make pilots only drink decaf coffee so they don't have problem with caffeine induced diuresis!

Every time you walk past Fuel at Wellington airport there are always multiple pilots getting their fix, and it's very rare for a flight without the crew taking in coffee. It makes we wonder if they could cope flying a plane if they weren't wired!

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#1274938 1-Apr-2015 09:12

Stu: That might not be enough for long haul flights. Ensuite in the cockpit, perhaps? ;-)

This is the case with the 747 which has a bathroom for the crew in their secure area. I'm pretty sure the A380 has this as well.

frankv

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#1275714 1-Apr-2015 20:58

sbiddle:
Geektastic: Perhaps it's time for civilian pilots to wear fighter Pilot style Flight suits with internal catheter bags so that no one need leave the cockpit....

Or make pilots only drink decaf coffee so they don't have problem with caffeine induced diuresis!

And have the pilots go to sleep???? What are you thinking???

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