Space flights officially the new thing

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gzt

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#2743624 13-Jul-2021 12:59

networkn: Will these be like the 'claims' made by Volkswagen Group that their Diesels were meeting efficiency standards?

Not all all. There are almost no CO2 standards for aviation and spaceflight as far as I'm aware. EPA is just starting with that:

https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2021/02/epas-aviation-emissions-standard/

jarledb

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#2743655 13-Jul-2021 14:05

MurrayM:

If I was going to go up in one then I think I'd prefer the Virgin Galactic method over the rockets (especially the self-landing rockets). The rockets seem to quite consistently blow up on launch or landing, whereas the VG method is more like a plane which is of course much more proven technology.

I don't know. There is a big human component to the Virgin Galactic flight. From the launch, to the activation of the break system to the unpowered glide landing back to earth that requires people not to make mistakes to avoid loosing the spacecraft.

That actually happened in 2014, when Virgin Galactic lost the VSS Enterprise:

They determined that the co-pilot, who died in the accident, prematurely unlocked a movable tail section some ten seconds after SpaceShipTwo fired its rocket engine and was breaking the sound barrier, resulting in the craft breaking apart.

The Board also found that the Scaled Composites unit of Northrop Grumman, which designed and flew the prototype space tourism vehicle, did not properly prepare for potential human slip-ups by providing a fail-safe system that could have guarded against such premature deployment. "A single-point human failure has to be anticipated," board member Robert Sumwalt said. Instead, Scaled Composites "put all their eggs in the basket of the pilots doing it correctly."

Source: Wikipedia

I think I like the odds of automatic systems more than I like systems that are reliant on humans not messing up.

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wellygary

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#2743670 13-Jul-2021 14:28

Dingbatt:

geekIT:

Given the current situation as regards climate change, joyriding into space is simply irresponsible.

Ive been trying to find out what greenhouse gases the solid rocket engine of Starshiptwo actually produces. Obviously the mothership runs on aviation fuel but I would be more concerned by the nasties (nitrous and aluminium oxides, etc) being released in the upper atmosphere and their effect on the ozone layer.

Did you have the same reaction when Musk launched his EV into space? Because the extra payload would have used extra fuel?

Joy of it being FAA certified is lots of juicy public info .

The TLDR is about 30 tonnes CO2 + smaller amounts of others per launch all up, inc support aircraft , at 6 pax that's 5 tonne per trip,

so its in the realm of a first class round the world trip....

page 27 onward

4.1.1.1 Carrier and Support Aircraft Emissions

"Final Environmental Assessment for the Launch and Reentry of SpaceShipTwo Reusable Suborbital Rockets at the Mojave Air and Space Port"
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/media/20120502_Mojave_SS2_Final_EAandFONSI.pdf

Dingbatt

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#2743682 13-Jul-2021 15:02

Since 30t of CO2 is produced by burning 10t of aviation fuel (3:1 ratio according to carbonindependent.com). That is no more than a large corporate jet would burn across the Atlantic. I assume billionaire’s corporate jets are all ‘large’.

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Batman

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#2743686 13-Jul-2021 15:22

wellygary:

Joy of it being FAA certified is lots of juicy public info .

The TLDR is about 30 tonnes CO2 + smaller amounts of others per launch all up, inc support aircraft , at 6 pax that's 5 tonne per trip,

so its in the realm of a first class round the world trip....

page 27 onward

4.1.1.1 Carrier and Support Aircraft Emissions

"Final Environmental Assessment for the Launch and Reentry of SpaceShipTwo Reusable Suborbital Rockets at the Mojave Air and Space Port"
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/media/20120502_Mojave_SS2_Final_EAandFONSI.pdf

6 tonnes of co2 ...

hmm...

jarledb

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#2743794 13-Jul-2021 21:05

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geekIT

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#2744137 14-Jul-2021 15:42

gzt:
geekIT: Given the current situation as regards climate change, joyriding into space is simply irresponsible.

If as Virgin claim - the CO2 output per passenger is equivalent to a New York to London flight - then you must also believe overseas flight holidays are simply irresponsible as regards the current situation with climate change.

On the other hand if an American wishes to spend a few minutes in space instead of a European holiday then it's an even swap.

If someone a bit more leet than that wants to take a European holiday and then spend a few minutes in space, or even more leet does space once a week then you may have a point regardless. Seen from that perspective it's a new product adding to uncompensated CO2 output.

Yes, I believe overseas flight holidays are also irresponsible at this time. Far better to assist internal economies by holidaying locally and lessening the risk of spreading COVID.

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networkn

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#2744159 14-Jul-2021 16:25

geekIT:

Yes, I believe overseas flight holidays are also irresponsible at this time. Far better to assist internal economies by holidaying locally and lessening the risk of spreading COVID.

It's pretty hard to justify buying local, when local spent a year complaining about the lack of overseas tourists and how hard they were doing it, provided some small discounts to incentivise locals to spend their money, to instantly crank their prices 40-70% the day the travel bubble was announced.

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#2745274 16-Jul-2021 18:29

Batman:
wellygary:

Joy of it being FAA certified is lots of juicy public info .

The TLDR is about 30 tonnes CO2 + smaller amounts of others per launch all up, inc support aircraft , at 6 pax that's 5 tonne per trip,

so its in the realm of a first class round the world trip....

page 27 onward

4.1.1.1 Carrier and Support Aircraft Emissions

"Final Environmental Assessment for the Launch and Reentry of SpaceShipTwo Reusable Suborbital Rockets at the Mojave Air and Space Port"
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/media/20120502_Mojave_SS2_Final_EAandFONSI.pdf

6 tonnes of co2 ...

hmm...

I have decided after reading the whole night last night, that all these numbers people are throwing out refers to only the SS2, the final piece that launches off SS1. These numbers do not include the amount of fuel SS1 burns to carry SS1+SS2 to 70,000ft.

My searches did not find anything about how much fuel SS1 burns. Anyone knows?

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#2745384 16-Jul-2021 19:10

4 of these. (there are 13 models, not sure which)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_Canada_PW300

~41.5 kg/kN/h (0.407 lb/lbf/h) at take-off

each

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#2745485 16-Jul-2021 23:45

Oblivian:

4 of these. (there are 13 models, not sure which)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_Canada_PW300

~41.5 kg/kN/h (0.407 lb/lbf/h) at take-off

each

article says PW308A

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geekIT

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#2746209 18-Jul-2021 12:46

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