Trans-Tasman bubble (Quarantine-Free Travel)

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#2695350 20-Apr-2021 16:10

Kyanar:

Aaaaaaand a border worker tests COVID positive in Auckland. That was fast.

What does that have to do with the trans-tasman bubble?

Kyanar

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#2695354 20-Apr-2021 16:15

Handle9:

What does that have to do with the trans-tasman bubble?

Everything. An airport worker tests positive to COVID literally the day after flights from Australia start landing. It does raise the question - was it related to a flight from Australia? This question hasn't been answered yet. We'll obviously have to wait and see what the Ministry of Health tells us.

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#2695356 20-Apr-2021 16:17

Kyanar:

Handle9:

What does that have to do with the trans-tasman bubble?

Everything. An airport worker tests positive to COVID literally the day after flights from Australia start landing. It does raise the question - was it related to a flight from Australia? This question hasn't been answered yet. We'll obviously have to wait and see what the Ministry of Health tells us.

Yes it has been answered.

Dingbatt

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#2695361 20-Apr-2021 16:28

A person who “cleans aircraft from high risk countries” to expand the answer a bit more. So not from within the bubble.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

wellygary

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#2695372 20-Apr-2021 17:03

Dingbatt:

A person who “cleans aircraft from high risk countries” to expand the answer a bit more. So not from within the bubble.

Yeah, they are fully vaccinated so likely have a low viral load and hence transmissibility , if their family/household close contacts are also vaccinated it will be another factor to reduce any penitential transmission,

Also they are on a weekly test cycle, so any potentially infectious period is likely only a few days...

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#2695392 20-Apr-2021 18:31

wellygary:

Yeah, they are fully vaccinated so likely have a low viral load and hence transmissibility , if their family/household close contacts are also vaccinated it will be another factor to reduce any penitential transmission,

Also they are on a weekly test cycle, so any potentially infectious period is likely only a few days...

Thats the $64,000 question. Can they infect others? The vaccine will stop most of us getting sick so that's a win. If it allows infections thats a problem. But you wont sneeze so that helps. But immune deficient people are at risk as are kids. If everyone that can be vaccinated, is, the virus can still cause damage, but it also will struggle to get a foothold. Its a long game. Those that are vaccinated will provide a level of herd immunity to protect others, but how much they are protected is in limbo. Over time its definitely a win but short term as it can still spread, hard to know.

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Scott3

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#2695401 20-Apr-2021 19:02

tdgeek:

Thats the $64,000 question. Can they infect others? The vaccine will stop most of us getting sick so that's a win. If it allows infections thats a problem. But you wont sneeze so that helps. But immune deficient people are at risk as are kids. If everyone that can be vaccinated, is, the virus can still cause damage, but it also will struggle to get a foothold. Its a long game. Those that are vaccinated will provide a level of herd immunity to protect others, but how much they are protected is in limbo. Over time its definitely a win but short term as it can still spread, hard to know.

Data from Israel allows us to answer this.

Yes Pfizer vaccinated people can infect others, but the Pfizer vaccine is 94% effective at reducing asymptomatic transmission.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfizer-vaccine-shows-94-effectiveness-asymptomatic-transmission-covid/story?id=76389615

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#2695404 20-Apr-2021 19:15

Scott3:

tdgeek:

Thats the $64,000 question. Can they infect others? The vaccine will stop most of us getting sick so that's a win. If it allows infections thats a problem. But you wont sneeze so that helps. But immune deficient people are at risk as are kids. If everyone that can be vaccinated, is, the virus can still cause damage, but it also will struggle to get a foothold. Its a long game. Those that are vaccinated will provide a level of herd immunity to protect others, but how much they are protected is in limbo. Over time its definitely a win but short term as it can still spread, hard to know.

Data from Israel allows us to answer this.

Yes Pfizer vaccinated people can infect others, but the Pfizer vaccine is 94% effective at reducing asymptomatic transmission.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfizer-vaccine-shows-94-effectiveness-asymptomatic-transmission-covid/story?id=76389615

Thanks. So 97% effective against getting sick, and 94% effective in stopping transmission. Thats impressive.

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#2695406 20-Apr-2021 19:24

tdgeek:

Thanks. So 97% effective against getting sick, and 94% effective in stopping transmission. Thats impressive.

Yip. Seems that this new mRNA technology is awesome... Will be interesting to see what vaccines for other pathogens come out based on the same underlying tech.

Latter number is specific to asymptotic cases only (I think), but either way it is impressive.

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#2695408 20-Apr-2021 19:30

Scott3:

Yip. Seems that this new mRNA technology is awesome... Will be interesting to see what vaccines for other pathogens come out based on the same underlying tech.

Latter number is specific to asymptotic cases only, but either way it is impressive.

Todays news says this. "What's not known is whether the cleaner could still transfer the virus to others. Dr Betty said that's possible, which is why contact tracing needs to happen."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/04/covid-19-experts-condemn-15th-border-breach-since-july-after-auckland-airport-worker-tests-positive.html

So, your link, which I like a lot, is blown off by the encyclopaedia known as Stuff News, and this expert. While we cannot expect at this early stage to forget about contact tracing etc, the disparity from one source to another is disturbing. The general public who I;d say don't show the same interest as here at GZ, will be hearing and seeing and watching a wide-ish variety of opinion, and they will take whatever they see from "experts/media" as fact. There wont be a single mindset to drive population awareness it seems.

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#2695409 20-Apr-2021 19:35

This annoys me too

There have been 15 border failures since July - three COVID-19 cases every two months on average. Of those, 11 cases were failures at our MIQ hotels and four others were non-MIQ related, like the airport cleaner or an air crew member getting the virus.

"This is way too high. We should be tightening our systems to really reduce border failures to make them really rare events," said Otago University epidemiologist Professor Nick Wilson.

Well over 100,000 returnees. 15 border failures. 0.00013636 "This is way too high" Yeah right. Get real.

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openmedia

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#2695430 20-Apr-2021 20:01

tdgeek:

This annoys me too

There have been 15 border failures since July - three COVID-19 cases every two months on average. Of those, 11 cases were failures at our MIQ hotels and four others were non-MIQ related, like the airport cleaner or an air crew member getting the virus.

"This is way too high. We should be tightening our systems to really reduce border failures to make them really rare events," said Otago University epidemiologist Professor Nick Wilson.

Well over 100,000 returnees. 15 border failures. 0.00013636 "This is way too high" Yeah right. Get real.

It also annoys me - but in a different way

It is 15 too many.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

tdgeek

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#2695581 21-Apr-2021 06:46

openmedia:

It also annoys me - but in a different way

It is 15 too many.

How can you make it foolproof? Lock everyone in their room like a prison? We see what its like overseas, after over a year, its rife. If we bring back over 100,000, its unavoidable. This cleaner cleaning an aircraft that we know has covid in it as we bring back infected people and we know that, how can that cleaner have zero chance of catching it?

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#2695642 21-Apr-2021 07:30

tdgeek:

openmedia:

It also annoys me - but in a different way

It is 15 too many.

How can you make it foolproof? Lock everyone in their room like a prison? We see what its like overseas, after over a year, its rife. If we bring back over 100,000, its unavoidable. This cleaner cleaning an aircraft that we know has covid in it as we bring back infected people and we know that, how can that cleaner have zero chance of catching it?

Making things foolproof is about putting systems and processes in place that cater for the fact that human nature means that people can cheat and lie. It involves proper risk assessment and catering for the fact humans are the weakest link. Every day people build processes to cater for this, and Covid should be no different.

The most recent case of the aircraft cleaner is IMHO not necessarily a big deal and I wouldn't consider it a breach in the same sense of others - we have to accept that cleaning aircraft carries risk and we need to put systems and processes in place to cater for that.

The two recent cases of MIQ workers being infected are very different, and show the processes in place around these workers were pathetic, and that aspects of our vaccine rollout so far have been a shambles. Both are simply inexcusable.

The fact we still have our head of MIQ a couple of days ago saying that our hotel ventilation systems pose a "low risk" of spreading Covid shows exactly what Professor Des Gorman summed up last week with his statement about the "can't learn won't learn don't learn" mentality that we seem to have right now where we think we're the best in the world at beating Covid and simply won't listen to what other countries may be saying. We know Covid is primarily spread by particle/droplet spread and have done for the past 12 months.

There have been many researchers (in Australia in particular) look at hotel quarantine environments, and yet we have an Army Brigadier who I'm pretty sure is not a HVAC engineer or epidemiologist tell those who are qualified in this line of work and have identified the serious risks that they're wrong.

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#2695650 21-Apr-2021 07:36

Ok, it should be zero like every other country

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