Greens 'Green School' does this damage the party credibility

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Forums › Politics › Greens 'Green School' does this damage the party credibility

ezbee

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#275624 1-Sep-2020 12:56

This whole thing has me puzzled as to how it got so far.
Surely any 'Green' program would have be examined for 'Greenwashing' and verify the community benefit.
Those deep in Green movement surely are well practiced in watching out for snake oil, grifters and greenwashers that abound.

I'm going to recycle tires, can I get a grant and support for a large area to store tires first whilst I await my magical recycling plant.
Surely they have seen this all before.

Its community money and its not like its spent on a true community resource, so there are Green principles of community gone first up.
Newshub TV story on the school, webpages on the school taken down so you can't point to the anti-covid frequency page, and other crazy stuff.
So that was all there to see , way back when this was proposed to see who you are dealing with.

Its not just the Greens though the local council were involved, mayor and councilors that need to look very hard at themselves.

Oh hell, full on Covid Conspiracy theorists holding events there .............. Arrrrrrrg
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/couple-who-called-covid-19-manufactured-natural-disaster-held-dna-activation-event-at-green-school.html

There could have been a group Green Tech Resource Center, resource for all schools in Taranaki.
Bringing in local Farming , Energy Industry , Building , Science labs on Green Energy, Construction , Technology, Automotive , Farming , etc integrated with the community, creating skills useful to community and country,
but no we have this elitist , nutter, trashfire.

Are the Greens shifting to Anti-Science now ?

Edit I Type therefore I typo

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#2554770 1-Sep-2020 13:35

Are the Greens shifting to Anti-Science now ?

Whilst they deny it, anti- science is alive and well in the Green Party,

In the past MPs have supported using Homeopathic treatments against Ebola , Fluoridation has been called "mass medication" and there is a total rejection of developing any GM measures against introduced predators, (possums) by the current Minister of Conservation.

Fred99

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#2554774 1-Sep-2020 13:40

Yes (simple answer to the thread title).

Whether it's enough to make a difference, who knows.

I'm surprised by the concern about "crystals and DNA activation". Private/integrated schools teach equally ludicrous concepts about invisible men in the sky, creationism, and moral standards based on interpretation of what they believe someone is supposed to have said a couple of thousand years ago, and it hardly raises an eyebrow.

Fred99

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#2554776 1-Sep-2020 13:43

wellygary:

Fluoridation has been called "mass medication".

Well it is, so calling it what it is doesn't seem unreasonable - even if calling such mass medication unreasonable may be.

deltadelta

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#2554804 1-Sep-2020 14:19

ezbee:
There could have been a group Green Tech Resource Center, resource for all schools in Taranaki.
Bringing in local Farming , Energy Industry , Building , Science labs on Green Energy, Construction , Technology, Automotive , Farming , etc integrated with the community, creating skills useful to community and country

Are you saying that such a group existed, put in an application to the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, and had it denied?

Handle9

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#2554809 1-Sep-2020 14:37

It looks bad. It also doesn't appear to be a systematic problem but rather a mistake. I'm inclined to leave it there unless there's repeated things like this happening. Shaw's explanation seems plausible.

The reaction will be largely forgotten by the election.

ezbee

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#2554811 1-Sep-2020 14:43

deltadelta:
ezbee:

There could have been a group Green Tech Resource Center, resource for all schools in Taranaki.
Bringing in local Farming , Energy Industry , Building , Science labs on Green Energy, Construction , Technology, Automotive , Farming , etc integrated with the community, creating skills useful to community and country

Are you saying that such a group existed, put in an application to the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, and had it denied?

Oh no , I don't know of an alternative proposal.

However with the proposal from the 'NewAge, calling itself a Green School' came up.
I would have expected the Mayor, and those in the channel on this.
To well think a bit,
That well maybe we can get a true community resource together with local companies etc and Mayor and Council should have good contacts with.
I gather this stuff came up through local government, who would then champion for a share of the Doh.

Anyway, seems a waste of an opportunity to have put a proposal avoiding baggage of this, and the Private School may have even contributed to share in this resource.

Taranaki, being a focus of Energy Technology Industries that Greens would want to pivot, also Farming, so it would be fitting.

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MikeAqua

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#2554825 1-Sep-2020 15:11

I would generally expect utter hypocrisy of this magnitude to be damaging. However this is popularity politics.

I suspect some left leaning swing voters might shift allegiance form green to labour. Grass roots green supporters will hang in there - where else are they going to go?

Mike

ezbee

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#2554827 1-Sep-2020 15:15

Fred99:

wellygary:

Fluoridation has been called "mass medication".

Well it is, so calling it what it is doesn't seem unreasonable - even if calling such mass medication unreasonable may be.

Yes ,

I suppose that proponents of one sort of mass mineralization, by burying crystals at schools across the country.
Irradiating students in mass with positive energy with no choice in the matter for generations to come.
Should not be too bothered by a different form of mass mineralization.
Its even to a degree natural, and plenty of these movements are proponents of unnatural delivery of natural stuff.
If not almost universally supportive of concentrated natural products, a un-natural delivery system.

Then there is the whole nanochip vaccination thing. :-)

MikeAqua

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#2554828 1-Sep-2020 15:21

wellygary:

Are the Greens shifting to Anti-Science now ?

Whilst they deny it, anti- science is alive and well in the Green Party,

In the past MPs have supported using Homeopathic treatments against Ebola , Fluoridation has been called "mass medication" and there is a total rejection of developing any GM measures against introduced predators, (possums) by the current Minister of Conservation.

I think there are two factions in the Greens

Faction 1) People with strong ideological views about the environment and socialism, that have an evidence base of varying quality to underpin their position, and are sometimes naively separated from mainstream values (e.g. a former leader who thought it would be a good decision to proudly admit benefit fraud).

And

Faction 2) Out there thinking alternate types on their own special, special wave length.

I don't envy James Shaw trying to keep some semblance of order. BTW where is Marama Davidson. She seems to have fallen off he edge of the world

Mike

Handle9

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#2554829 1-Sep-2020 15:23

MikeAqua:
I think there are two factions in the Greens

Faction 1) People with strong ideological views about the environment and socialism, that have an evidence base of varying quality to underpin their position, and are sometimes naively separated from mainstream values (e.g. a former leader who thought it would be a good decision to proudly admit benefit fraud).

And

Faction 2) Out there thinking alternate types on their own special, special wave length.

I don't envy James Shaw trying to keep some semblance of order. BTW where is Marama Davidson. She seems to have fallen off he edge of the world

Faction 2 exists in every political party...

Fred99

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#2554918 1-Sep-2020 16:04

There's also a "faction 3)":

People who are deeply concerned about the environment and aware that the main political parties will never be able to overcome the "tragedy of the commons" without losing support and thus power to do anything at all.

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Handle9

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#2554924 1-Sep-2020 16:09

In my experience most political parties are made up of a diverse range of people. Dividing them up into "factions" is a bit pointless.

In my experience they all have a fairly high percentage of weirdos.

ezbee

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#2554969 1-Sep-2020 16:32

Taranaki centered and more like it , but nothing to do with the shovel grants.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/424970/hydrogen-powered-electric-truck-fuelling-stations-planned-for-2021

The hydrogen trucks would not come cheap, however.

Clennett said the vehicles came at a 25 to 30 percent premium compared with an equivalent diesel truck.

The key to reducing costs would be creating an economy of scale, by bringing in more trucks and increasing hydrogen production volumes, he said.

Hiringa had received private backing from Mitsui, Stephen Tindall's investment company K1W1 and a range of other New Zealand entities.

Varkk

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#2554971 1-Sep-2020 16:35

I heard somewhere that the rules around this funding were quite limited and they had to choose something which was in the Taranaki region was ready to go and had had a business case vetted by MBIE. Almost everything else was related to the oil and gas industry there. Shaw took the least bad option for the Green party. Having said that his handling of the fallout should be taught in PR classes as how not to handle something like this. It should also be noted that it was decided by representatives of all coalition members but they made Shaw be the one to front it. The posturing about why couldn't this money go to existing state schools is a red-herring as this is a separate fund to the MoE budget for schools.

gzt

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#2555225 1-Sep-2020 21:28

Greens 'Green School' does this damage the party credibility

Among prospective green voters probably not really. It was a bad idea on many levels and also went against the spirit or even the letter of Green Party policy. Shaw appears to have taken responsibility for it. It's unclear how that will play out.

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