The Prime Minister and the waitress

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Networkn
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#1289592 22-Apr-2015 17:14

BigMal: Out of interest does anyone here play with the hair of waitresses in cafes? I can't think of an appropriate time to do it, I don't even consider it playful. When would playing with a waitresses hair ever be considered playful? It's definitely weird. He probably shouldn't lose his job but he should probably see a psychiatrist or something.

I dunno, depends how well you know them to a small degree and I think it's definitely more acceptable in men of JK's generation to horse around in that fashion. I probably wouldn't do it, and I certainly wouldn't do it if I detected any hint of uncomfortableness. It's not acceptable in today's society, but I know plenty of people who think that is PC nonsense.

I personally fall a little in the middle where I think intent, and perception by the recipient are factors.

JWR

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#1289596 22-Apr-2015 17:16

benokobi:
KiwiNZ:
networkn:
KiwiNZ:
networkn:

If there is no repercussions for his actions it will be seen as tacit approval of his actions by others in our society. He chose to be the Nations Leader therefore he must act accordingly.

He has had ramifications but not as extreme as you'd suggest.

Your suggestion that the nation is now going to start pulling hair and expecting it's ok, is patently ridiculous and if you don't believe me, I challenge you to ask the next 10 people you see the following question, and report back the answers.

"Now that John Key has pulled the hair of a waitress and the only consequence was the requirement for a few bottles of wine and an apology, will you now proceed to pull hair and expect it's ok"

I guess you have no idea how long and how hard the battle against sexual harassment has been.

So you won't be asking that question and reporting back the answer? I didn't think so.

Personally I think you are getting a little carried away with the drama. It seems to be out of perspective.

"She thanked me for that and said 'that's all fine, no drama'".

Does it sound like she felt sexually violated, or that this will carry with her for the rest of her life and affect her relationships from now on in? It doesn't sound that way to me.

unbelievable

If she said that tit was all fine to him she shouldn't have released all this publically and make a big deal about it.

I thought he pulled her ponytail?

NZCrusader

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#1289601 22-Apr-2015 17:22

Not sure who removed the answer from my last post, because that was it.

Summary:
- 5 mins of fame for a couple of people.
- In two weeks this will have been totally forgotten about and we will have moved on to the next controversy.

Who knows, maybe we find out Helen Clark is really a man?
Maybe the bachelor ends up single in the end.
Maybe someone we totally expect to win Xfactor, does win..

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BigMal

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#1289604 22-Apr-2015 17:24

networkn:
BigMal: Out of interest does anyone here play with the hair of waitresses in cafes? I can't think of an appropriate time to do it, I don't even consider it playful. When would playing with a waitresses hair ever be considered playful? It's definitely weird. He probably shouldn't lose his job but he should probably see a psychiatrist or something.

I dunno, depends how well you know them to a small degree and I think it's definitely more acceptable in men of JK's generation to horse around in that fashion. I probably wouldn't do it, and I certainly wouldn't do it if I detected any hint of uncomfortableness. It's not acceptable in today's society, but I know plenty of people who think that is PC nonsense.

I personally fall a little in the middle where I think intent, and perception by the recipient are factors.

I don't think it's normal behaviour, he should definitely talk to a professional about it in my opinion. I don't think being of any sort of generation should legitimise the weirdness.

DaveB

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#1289606 22-Apr-2015 17:30

KiwiNZ:
networkn:

If there is no repercussions for his actions it will be seen as tacit approval of his actions by others in our society. He chose to be the Nations Leader therefore he must act accordingly.

He has had ramifications but not as extreme as you'd suggest.

Your suggestion that the nation is now going to start pulling hair and expecting it's ok, is patently ridiculous and if you don't believe me, I challenge you to ask the next 10 people you see the following question, and report back the answers.

"Now that John Key has pulled the hair of a waitress and the only consequence was the requirement for a few bottles of wine and an apology, will you now proceed to pull hair and expect it's ok"

I guess you have no idea how long and how hard the battle against sexual harassment has been.

Just asking Mike, because I have watched with a sense of sadness at the many threads you have participated in - with an incredulous low level of tolerance and an obvious inability to consider for a moment in time, another's point of view - Do you feel that you are one of the many people that "feel that they are oppressed by today's society"?

Such left wing intolerance that has pervaded today's society scares me. I am asking this because this is an open forum and, trust me, I am trying to understand, to, at least understand your vocal and dictatorial stance.

djtOtago

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#1289607 22-Apr-2015 17:31

My memory may be incorrect but

Wasn't John Key in Australia Saturday March 28 for the Cricket World Cup Final.
and
Thursday, 26 March was he not still in Japan talking free trade or something with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Lias

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#1289615 22-Apr-2015 17:37

Best comment I've seen so far goes to Duncan Garner. "If Roger Sutton was completely inappropriate with his creepy office antics - then how does this differ?"

Even if you think is actions are minor, even if you think it was all a big misunderstanding, at the end of the day he repeatedly initiated bodily contact with another person, even in the face of being told repeatedly to stop. Roger Sutton lost his job for less, why shouldn't the PM?

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nakedmolerat

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#1289618 22-Apr-2015 17:42

If I were to do this a few times to the waitress at the cafeteria, at my work place, I will lose my job.

It is also interesting how the shop manager didn't act and told him to stop....

MikeB4

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#1289647 22-Apr-2015 18:19

DaveB:
KiwiNZ:
networkn:

If there is no repercussions for his actions it will be seen as tacit approval of his actions by others in our society. He chose to be the Nations Leader therefore he must act accordingly.

He has had ramifications but not as extreme as you'd suggest.

Your suggestion that the nation is now going to start pulling hair and expecting it's ok, is patently ridiculous and if you don't believe me, I challenge you to ask the next 10 people you see the following question, and report back the answers.

"Now that John Key has pulled the hair of a waitress and the only consequence was the requirement for a few bottles of wine and an apology, will you now proceed to pull hair and expect it's ok"

I guess you have no idea how long and how hard the battle against sexual harassment has been.

Just asking Mike, because I have watched with a sense of sadness at the many threads you have participated in - with an incredulous low level of tolerance and an obvious inability to consider for a moment in time, another's point of view - Do you feel that you are one of the many people that "feel that they are oppressed by today's society"?

Such left wing intolerance that has pervaded today's society scares me. I am asking this because this is an open forum and, trust me, I am trying to understand, to, at least understand your vocal and dictatorial stance.

I just about sprayed coffee over my screen, left wing?? Me?? That is really funny.

Tinshed

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#1289649 22-Apr-2015 18:29

The worst of this is the sanctimony of those piling on John Key simply because they don't like him or support his government. It is thinking the worst of someone you don't already like and not even trying to see the nuances of the situation. People are playing this as politics. There is very little concern for the victim in all of this. That tells you a lot about those criticising John Key. Don't get me wrong, John Key has behaved inappropriately and it isn't OK what he did. But please, spare me the high-horse, sanctimonious hypocrisy of the self-righteous on display.

Tinshed
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surfisup1000

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#1289662 22-Apr-2015 18:32

SaltyNZ:
surfisup1000: a completely different situation but you know that I think.

Well, you're right; on the one hand we have a situation where the hair-puller would get a short sharp arresting, and on the other we have the Prime Minister of New Zealand pulling the hair of a woman who works in a cafe.

Let me repeat that: the Prime Minister of New Zealand pulling the hair of a woman who works in a cafe.

In what universe is that the kind of thing we want our Prime Minister to be doing? Should he start crumpling empty Lion Red cans on the foreheads of random men he walks past and call them Bruce? Where exactly do we draw the line on what is and is not Prime-Ministerly public behaviour?

You along with some others just don't seem to get it.

My point is that the context matters with respect to whether it is assault, but I suppose such complicated subtleties are lost on people with such black and white views.

Thankfully some of the people here are not judges. You'd end up with 3/4 of the nation in jail and the other 1/4 fleeing the country.

jonathan18

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#1289667 22-Apr-2015 18:38

Tinshed: The worst of this is the sanctimony of those piling on John Key simply because they don't like him or support his government. It is thinking the worst of someone you don't already like and not even trying to see the nuances of the situation. People are playing this as politics. There is very little concern for the victim in all of this. That tells you a lot about those criticising John Key. Don't get me wrong, John Key has behaved inappropriately and it isn't OK what he did. But please, spare me the high-horse, sanctimonious hypocrisy of the self-righteous on display.

For me this isn't a left/right issue, and I'd be equally damning of any politician of any persuasion in this same situation.

That it is yet another example of this particular politician minimising his or his ministers' (demonstrably stupid) actions does, however, point towards a real lack of moral compass. Time will tell if these begin to snowball into meaningful public disillusionment with this government.

SaltyNZ

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#1289676 22-Apr-2015 19:00

surfisup1000:
SaltyNZ:
surfisup1000: a completely different situation but you know that I think.

Well, you're right; on the one hand we have a situation where the hair-puller would get a short sharp arresting, and on the other we have the Prime Minister of New Zealand pulling the hair of a woman who works in a cafe.

Let me repeat that: the Prime Minister of New Zealand pulling the hair of a woman who works in a cafe.

In what universe is that the kind of thing we want our Prime Minister to be doing? Should he start crumpling empty Lion Red cans on the foreheads of random men he walks past and call them Bruce? Where exactly do we draw the line on what is and is not Prime-Ministerly public behaviour?

You along with some others just don't seem to get it.

My point is that the context matters with respect to whether it is assault, but I suppose such complicated subtleties are lost on people with such black and white views.

Thankfully some of the people here are not judges. You'd end up with 3/4 of the nation in jail and the other 1/4 fleeing the country.

Did you read what I wrote? I said that he should privately apologise and that should be the end of it. But I do stand by my belief that the man who wants to represent New Zealand to the world shouldn't act like some idiot who thinks its a great giggle to pull women's hair in public.

Bill Clinton might have been able to pull it off, but I don't think JK's in quite the same league, personality-wise. :)

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freitasm

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#1289705 22-Apr-2015 19:32

andrew027:
freitasm:
andrew027:
freitasm: I voted for Mr Key twice. I will probably not vote for him again.

Assuming your decision is based on this story, that’s exactly the reaction the blogger was hoping for.

Not only based on this story. But based on all his actions in the last two or three years. His non-committal comments when someone points something wrong in the government, the smug attitude when talking down other politicians, and other things.

That's fair enough. I'm not voting National next time either, based primarily on how I have no say on issues like TPPA, GCSB, selling state assets, etc. but am allowed to tell the government whether I want a new flag. [Off-topic: If New Zealand's national flag becomes a black rectangle with a white fern on it, I'm giving my citizenship back.]

Same reasons. And I think a new flag discussion is just a diversion from the real problems.

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#1289715 22-Apr-2015 19:35

NZCrusader: Not sure who removed the answer from my last post, because that was it.

Summary:
- 5 mins of fame for a couple of people.
- In two weeks this will have been totally forgotten about and we will have moved on to the next controversy.

Who knows, maybe we find out Helen Clark is really a man?
Maybe the bachelor ends up single in the end.
Maybe someone we totally expect to win Xfactor, does win..

Stop the conspiracy theories. Your reply in the previous page.

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