When will NZ get equal rights for ALL citizens?

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Forums › Politics › When will NZ get equal rights for ALL citizens?

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#398844 1-Nov-2010 21:41

alasta:
Teeps: Did you choose your hair colour? Being gay isn't a lifestyle choice it is how I am, it is part of me just as the colour of your hair is part of you.

Homosexuality is a behaviour, not a physical attribute. I would have considered it to be tantamount to someone's choice of whether to drink, go to church, etc.

I'm not saying it's a harmful behaviour, but the suggestion that people are not responsible for their own lifestyle choices has dangerous implications in my view.

Well did you choose to be straight? Did you wake up one day and go "mmmm gonna eat me some carpet today"? Didnt think so. Just like we gays just know we're gay.

Teeps

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#398847 1-Nov-2010 21:43

geekiegeek:
tardtasticx:
geekiegeek: if there was no such thing as adoption what would you do then?

Sarogate?

Then one of you would be the biological parent. Thats a little bit different.

Isn't this a different issue? You're saying it would be ok for a same sex couple to bring up a child if one of them is the biological parent? That contradicts earlier opinions and also blows open up a whole new debate on whether adoption should be allowed at all.

kyhwana2

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#398848 1-Nov-2010 21:43

alasta:
Teeps: Did you choose your hair colour? Being gay isn't a lifestyle choice it is how I am, it is part of me just as the colour of your hair is part of you.

Homosexuality is a behaviour, not a physical attribute. I would have considered it to be tantamount to someone's choice of whether to drink, go to church, etc.

I'm not saying it's a harmful behaviour, but the suggestion that people are not responsible for their own lifestyle choices has dangerous implications in my view.

In that case, hetereosexuality is a behaviour. Straight people just choose to be straight, which means they could choose to be homosexual as well. They could choose to fall in love with someone of the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

Straight people need to choose to stop breeding so we don't overpopulate this planet. I'm sure that's easy for you guys to do right? Oh, what's that, the human race is still increasing. Oh damn!

So why don't you go choose to be gay, see how well that works out for you.

Teeps

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#398849 1-Nov-2010 21:48

alasta:
Teeps: Did you choose your hair colour? Being gay isn't a lifestyle choice it is how I am, it is part of me just as the colour of your hair is part of you.

Homosexuality is a behaviour, not a physical attribute. I would have considered it to be tantamount to someone's choice of whether to drink, go to church, etc.

I'm not saying it's a harmful behaviour, but the suggestion that people are not responsible for their own lifestyle choices has dangerous implications in my view.?

Out of 10 pages on this thread you have officially shocked me more than other views. That really shown a very low understanding of your fellow human beings.

Did you choose to be heterosexual? Are you saying that you fancy guys but you choose to fancy women instead?

alasta

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#398850 1-Nov-2010 21:49

tardtasticx: Well did you choose to be straight?

I'm not sure of exactly what you trendy liberals mean when you use the word 'straight' in this context but I can confirm that any sexual behaviour that I have partaken in, or not partaken in, was a choice for which I accept full responsibility for any outcome.

Did you wake up one day and go "mmmm gonna eat me some carpet today"? Didnt think so. Just like we gays just know we're gay.

Again I have no idea what you're referring to here but clearly there are some people who are taking this discussion far too personally, so I've given my input and I'll leave it at that.

Teeps

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#398853 1-Nov-2010 21:53

alasta:
tardtasticx: Well did you choose to be straight?

I'm not sure of exactly what you trendy liberals mean when you use the word 'straight' in this context but I can confirm that any sexual behaviour that I have partaken in, or not partaken in, was a choice for which I accept full responsibility for any outcome.?

Did you wake up one day and go "mmmm gonna eat me some carpet today"? Didnt think so. Just like we gays just know we're gay.?

Again I have no idea what you're referring to here but clearly there are some people who are taking this discussion far too personally, so I've given my input and I'll leave it at that.

I think it was perfectly clear what he meant, but suggesting as gay guys we made a choice so we should stop moaning and wanting more and more acceptance after you decided it was ok for us to choose to be gay is very insulting and extremely malnformed

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jaymz

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#398854 1-Nov-2010 21:53

hi! Long time reader, first time poster (sorry couldn't help myself)

Just been reading over the laws and discussing with a friend of mine who adopted recently (he is straight for the record).

As far as I can read, any person can adopt a child providing they meet all the criteria for adoption.

That means ANY person can adopt, straight, gay or otherwise.

The issue is though, if the person is in a relationship with another and they are not married then that second person cannot be legally assigned the title of guardian.

Also, there are some interesting points about the types of adoptions that take place in NZ these days.

Long gone are the whole "house full of kids looked after by the state ready to go out to willing people"
Most adoptions happen interfamily. Where one parent passes the "ownership" (cant think of the right word) onto another family member.

Another common adoption happens where a single parent chooses to adopt the child out, but has a say over who the child goes to. They may not want the child going to a balding person - that is their choice.

Views will change over time though, it takes time for people to come around to new ideas. It is great to see discussions like this, it puts the topic in peoples mind and opens them up to new ideas!

tardtasticx

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#398855 1-Nov-2010 21:54

alasta:
tardtasticx: Well did you choose to be straight?

I'm not sure of exactly what you trendy liberals mean when you use the word 'straight' in this context but I can confirm that any sexual behaviour that I have partaken in, or not partaken in, was a choice for which I accept full responsibility for any outcome.

Did you wake up one day and go "mmmm gonna eat me some carpet today"? Didnt think so. Just like we gays just know we're gay.

Again I have no idea what you're referring to here but clearly there are some people who are taking this discussion far too personally, so I've given my input and I'll leave it at that.

Well I could use some more graphic words if you'd like but that would probably get me banned so I wont. I know you understand what I said there but because you choose to leave thats apparently the way it is

jaymz

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#398858 1-Nov-2010 21:56

Well I could use some more graphic words if you'd like but that would probably get me banned so I wont. I know you understand what I said there but because you choose to leave thats apparently the way it is

He was ending the argument as it was probably going to lead to banning/locking of this thread.

Teeps

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#398866 1-Nov-2010 22:05

@jaymz

Thanks for your input. I will admit I do not know about the actual laws relating to adoption, even though that was the basis of the discussion, to me it could be hypothetical anyway as it comes down to views on whether people believe a same sex couple is right to adopt or even look after children.

If your information is true that's great. Personally I have never had the desire to adopt but I still think anyone should be able to be considered to adopt a child and should not be stopped at the first hurdle based on their sexuality or marital status.

I get great pleasure in my niece and nephews and enjoy my time with them as I believe they do with us. I don't believe that has harmed them in any way and has not made them a point of bullying due to having gay uncles and very much doubt it would be different if they had gay parents.

jaymz

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#398868 1-Nov-2010 22:14

And I agree, personally I can see no harm in a gay couple raising a child.

I know several gay couples and they are lovely people. I admit though, I am not fully comfortable around them, but I am better than what I was at highschool (mid 20's now).

As I have said, people will change/adapt/liken the new ideas that are out there. It just takes time, discussion and understanding for both parties.

Personally, during my school days, there were loads of things kids teased the others for. It comes down to how the child handles it and how parents and teachers control it.

Since most gay people have struggled through school and teasing in their lives, I beleive that they would prepare the child for such situations and the child would be better off than other children.

[Edited by Jaymz: Missed "other" on the last sentence, it makes sense now!]

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Handle9

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#398872 1-Nov-2010 22:20

tardtasticx:
geekiegeek: I have adopted out my twin sons at a time when I was in a bad place. I have a lot of contact with them and have done from day one. Just because I choose a better life for my son's doesnt mean I shouldnt have a say in who gets to give them that life.

Thats like saying "I gave my laptop away on craigslist because I dont use it very much, doesnt mean i shouldnt get a say as what ISP its used on." You know how discriminatory that is? "oh no you two are gay you are definitely not getting my twins"

I'm not sure that comparing a child to a laptop is really advancing your argument. You're talking about something that I can only imagine was heartbreaking to go through and I don't think that most people can really say how they would react.

I'd like to think that if it was me I'd want to judge people as indivuals / couples but I don't really know how I'd react. I think given that we've actually got someone who's gone through the process involved in the thread is incredibly useful. If that makes me a bigot in others eyes so be it but it's incredibly easy to be judgemental in the abstract.

Teeps

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#398881 1-Nov-2010 22:35

Handle9:
tardtasticx:
geekiegeek: I have adopted out my twin sons at a time when I was in a bad place. I have a lot of contact with them and have done from day one. Just because I choose a better life for my son's doesnt mean I shouldnt have a say in who gets to give them that life.

Thats like saying "I gave my laptop away on craigslist because I dont use it very much, doesnt mean i shouldnt get a say as what ISP its used on." You know how discriminatory that is? "oh no you two are gay you are?definitely?not getting my twins"?

I'm not sure that comparing a child to a laptop is really advancing your argument. You're talking about something that I can only imagine was heartbreaking to go through and I don't think that most people can really say how they would react.

I'd like to think that if it was me I'd want to judge people as indivuals / couples but I don't really know how I'd react. I think given that we've actually got someone who's gone through the process involved in the thread is incredibly useful.??If that makes me a bigot in others eyes so be it but it's incredibly easy to be judgemental in the abstract.?

Admittedly a child is a lot more precious and important than a laptop but I am sure he wasn't meaning a literal comparison, he was just trying to make a point to explain.

I agree, it must be heartbreaking to give up your children, but I would hope that if you were in the position to vet potential adoptive parents (not all parents of children up for adoption would be in this position though) I would like to think that you would entrust your offspring to the people who are best capable of looking after them and not discounting people based purely on their sexuality, those two guys or two gals may just be the best people to bring up your child and give it the life you cannot give them.

tardtasticx

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#398886 1-Nov-2010 22:39

Teeps

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#398887 1-Nov-2010 22:41

jaymz: I know several gay couples and they are lovely people. I admit though, I am not fully comfortable around them, but I am better than what I was at highschool (mid 20's now).

Thankfully we're not all monsters (of course there are some!). The chances are if you knew of more gay people at school and were brought up knowing that it is a normal part of life you would feel more comfortable now.

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