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Fred99
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  #2314093 10-Sep-2019 10:47
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Or are you blaming the Coalition for encouraging climate change? Does National have an anti tourism policy? I wouldn't have an issue if tourism was banned. If a $1000 per seat levy was placed on flights, if meat was banned from being farmed as was milk (thats quite sensible).  

 

Govts dont want to upset people as votes are more important than climate change. Most people want green policies but truth be known they dont want to pay for it, classic human behaviour.

 

 

I think we're structurally boned in that we're heavily reliant on tourism, but radical steps such as population control in somewhere like NZ, where we have so few people to begin with, is going to be seen as draconian. We can't even convince people to have fewer kids for the benefit of their own well-being, let alone some loftier inspirational goal like 'saving the planet'. How would you enforce it? Mass sterilisation? Executing third-borns? 

 

 

"Population control" in NZ is pointless anyway.  Without immigration, like most other first world countries, we'd have negative population growth.

 

Even after China eased their one-child policy, their population growth continues to decline.  They probably factored the risk of falling into a demographic trap as part of the decision.  Japan has that, low immigration, negative population growth, and an ageing population.  It's not coincidence that they have a deficit >2x GDP.

 

It's easy to hypothesise and hard to refute that capitalism and environmentalism aren't compatible. The libertarian view that "we've used our ingenuity to save ourselves before - so can do so indefinitely into the future whatever the threat" seems just like religious optimism to me. The theistic religions seem to be gravitating toward belief that end of times are near, though to be fair, they've been using that ideology as a recruitment tool for at least centuries.

 

 




Rikkitic
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  #2314099 10-Sep-2019 10:57
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I believe that nature is self-regulating. It is also merciless. When the ecosystem can no longer support us, it will collapse. There will be wars, famine, disease and the population will self-adjust. The only difference is if we did it ourselves in a regulated fashion, there would be a lot less misery, but in general, people are too selfish and too short term in their thinking to see that. So it will happen the hard way.

 

 





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tdgeek
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  #2314113 10-Sep-2019 11:06
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Rikkitic:

 

I believe that nature is self-regulating. It is also merciless. When the ecosystem can no longer support us, it will collapse. There will be wars, famine, disease and the population will self-adjust. The only difference is if we did it ourselves in a regulated fashion, there would be a lot less misery, but in general, people are too selfish and too short term in their thinking to see that. So it will happen the hard way.

 

 

 

 

Exactly right




Fred99
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  #2314176 10-Sep-2019 11:53
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tdgeek:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I believe that nature is self-regulating. It is also merciless. When the ecosystem can no longer support us, it will collapse. There will be wars, famine, disease and the population will self-adjust. The only difference is if we did it ourselves in a regulated fashion, there would be a lot less misery, but in general, people are too selfish and too short term in their thinking to see that. So it will happen the hard way.

 

 

 

 

Exactly right

 

 

Makes me want to eat, drink and be merry, and I've got things I really want to do tomorrow.


tdgeek
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  #2314184 10-Sep-2019 12:02
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Yes. We can land a probe on a meteor, take samples, send them home. We have done that. Landed on a comet too. But we seem to be ambivalent to what we are doing. At this rate, one day, our being will revolve around coping with and living in, what we have done. ThAts where I honestly feel we are going. The tipping point cant be far away. If we had the will and that starts at all Governments, I'm sure we could do a great deal to slow and sequester carbon


networkn
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  #2316495 12-Sep-2019 13:53
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Fred99:

 

So - suggest what could be improved with the execution of that policy.  The article you posted was beyond "political spin",  and because it stated "as fact" unverifiable data, was effectively "fake news" and nothing more than an attempted but poorly executed hatchet job. 

 

 

I have, only multiple occasions, feel free to go back and find it if you are really interested. 

 

Despite claims to the contrary by people here, when I criticize a policy, I will, almost without exception, (covering myself here) provide reasons why I have an issue with it (At least initially). 

 

 


 
 
 
 

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Rikkitic
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  #2316522 12-Sep-2019 14:33
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networkn:

 

Despite claims to the contrary by people here, when I criticize a policy, I will, almost without exception, (covering myself here) provide reasons why I have an issue with it (At least initially). 

 

 

We disagree on almost everything, but in fairness I have to say I agree with this statement. In most cases you do usually give reasons for your assertions, often backed up with citations of some kind. Some that I checked were indisputably correct, some maybe a matter of interpretation, but you are better than most at documenting your claims. So is @fred99.

 

 

 

  





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GV27
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  #2316547 12-Sep-2019 15:21
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I will also chip in here that the standard of discussion here is far above most other places; Geekzone and Interest.co.nz (followed by Greater Auckland) are where I do the bulk of my reading online for a very good reason. 


networkn
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  #2316548 12-Sep-2019 15:21
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The new announcement that history will now be a mandatory topic in schools is one causing me internal conflict. I HATED history at school, it bored me beyond belief and even now I find most fairly boring (though the older I get....).  I was kinda amused by the fact that it was the top headline this morning and the one under it was schools in Auckland saying they were facing a teacher shortage crisis. I haven't looked at the new announcement, but I wonder where the teachers for this are coming from, or if they just expect it to be crammed in with another topic.

 

I am torn because despite the fact I myself have no real interest in history, I do feel some knowledge of NZ history is somewhat important, though in my opinion what NEEDS to be taught could be taught in a matter of hours. For knowledge beyond that, then take history as an elective topic.

 

From my distant memory of high school I recall history was a core subject for 2 terms a year, as was a language. I liked the idea of an extra language but my school only taught German, which I didn't like at all, I wanted to learn French.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Fred99
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  #2316551 12-Sep-2019 15:29
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networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

So - suggest what could be improved with the execution of that policy.  The article you posted was beyond "political spin",  and because it stated "as fact" unverifiable data, was effectively "fake news" and nothing more than an attempted but poorly executed hatchet job. 

 

 

I have, only multiple occasions, feel free to go back and find it if you are really interested. 

 

Despite claims to the contrary by people here, when I criticize a policy, I will, almost without exception, (covering myself here) provide reasons why I have an issue with it (At least initially). 

 

 

 

 

You have to go back a couple of pages to even find out what this is about, I'm not going back 119 pages to find whatever *seemingly  always negative* things you post about the free fees policy.  If you've posted something that's not negative about the scheme, please remind me or post a link.

 

The article you posted from the NZ Herald about the high dropout rate from the free fees policy *is fake news*.  That the NZH consider uninformed and heavily biased political opinion "premium" content is really laughable. 

 

I believe I posted a link to a rebuttal from NZUSA president - claiming the opposite - that dropout numbers had reduced.  I actually don't take that as gospel either - I guess they're using their own figures of numbers of students cancelling NZUSA membership, when at this point in time, there's no way to know what the impact is (if any) on dropout / failure to complete. 

 

IIRC Labour brought in Uni fees (Goff?) in the late '80s, when the neoliberal ideology of trickle-down economics was widely believed to be real.  30 years later, it's clear that didn't work - at least in terms of inequality *of opportunity* seems just as bad as it was before (or worse).  The story was that those at the bottom end would be "lifted up".  Never happened and never will - without intervention / regulation.


Fred99
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  #2316564 12-Sep-2019 16:00
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networkn:

 

The new announcement that history will now be a mandatory topic in schools is one causing me internal conflict. I HATED history at school, it bored me beyond belief and even now I find most fairly boring (though the older I get....).  I was kinda amused by the fact that it was the top headline this morning and the one under it was schools in Auckland saying they were facing a teacher shortage crisis. I haven't looked at the new announcement, but I wonder where the teachers for this are coming from, or if they just expect it to be crammed in with another topic.

 

I am torn because despite the fact I myself have no real interest in history, I do feel some knowledge of NZ history is somewhat important, though in my opinion what NEEDS to be taught could be taught in a matter of hours. For knowledge beyond that, then take history as an elective topic.

 

From my distant memory of high school I recall history was a core subject for 2 terms a year, as was a language. I liked the idea of an extra language but my school only taught German, which I didn't like at all, I wanted to learn French.

 

 

Well we have something in common after all.

 

I despised history as a subject at school.

 

I had to study (compulsory)  two languages, French and Latin or German for 3 years. I took German and French, and despised both.  10 years later I had to learn some French for work - when there's a reason and you don't hate it, it's much easier. 

 

I do believe that History - if taught well - could be interesting and relevant.  It's hard to say though - from the perspective of someone my age it's interesting - if you want to understand the here and now, knowing how we got here seems fundamentally important.


 
 
 
 

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Rikkitic
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  #2316571 12-Sep-2019 16:12
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I enjoy history. But I didn't enjoy the way it was taught. So I just went off and studied it myself.

 

 





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freitasm
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  #2316572 12-Sep-2019 16:12
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I am always surprised history is not taught. It's as important as other disciplines in making someone prepared to the world.

 

I have what I'd like to call a "classical education" and... whoa does it help understand stuff.





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GV27
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  #2316594 12-Sep-2019 16:35
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I find this "History isn't taught!" thing a bit weird. I'm pretty sure Social Studies is mandatory to Year 10. 


Dingbatt
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  #2316654 12-Sep-2019 16:51
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My biggest concern is what 'version' of history will be taught?
Will it depend on the government of the day as to what is mandated to be taught. History tends to be written by the victor.

Imagine if someone like Mike Pence set the history curriculum?




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


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