Our new coalition government.

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MikeB4
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#2320300 19-Sep-2019 13:02

networkn:

tdgeek:

This Govt will be out next election.

They SHOULD be out next election, but I doubt it's that automatic. We disagree how bad this Government has been, but given how *I* think they have performed, I would have expected the polls should have been showing them in a really poor light even before this latest trainwreck, but the polls didn't reflect that. The cynic in me thinks a well timed wedding could be played along the line somewhere too once the dust settles. Either way, if JA seeks a second term as PM, she is in for a tough time during the debates. National need to find someone who can take her to task without being seen to "bully" her.

I cannot see the Coalition being exited in 2020. National has no real coalition partners (Act is nothing) and has no chance of making the treasury benches on its own. The current coalition even with all its failures currently stacks up better than the Simon Bridges disaster. As a long time National supporter I cannot see myself voting National while Bridges, Bennett and Collins are still there. I would want to see some talent, credibility and integrity back in National before voting for them.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#2320310 19-Sep-2019 13:16

GV27:

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

Thanks for that reply. It clarifies some things. While this is not really related, I have never been able to understand how the Japanese were able to rebuild so quickly and so well after the massive destruction they suffered, but we still can't seem to get Christchurch right. Is this some kind of cultural thing, as in we simply can't get it together?

I was going to reply to @N's post, but its our culture. While we are the number 8 wire culture, we can fix anything, we are also delicate. Take OSH, yes we do need protections and standards in place but that is very much over the top. We do need buildings and planning standards but they are way over the top. The gap between common sense and efficiency, and the rules we have in place is ridiculous. Bureaucracy is the weed of economics. It smothers everything in time and cost.

We also have low expectations - the oft-quoted metric is the Japanese rail network's idea of efficiency is something like 95% of trains arriving within seconds of their scheduled time, but Auckland measures the same thing in five minute windows. As long as it's 4:59 or under, it's OK.

It's also why projects like the NW widening take years (been going on the entire time I've lived out West) and the Waterview Connection itself was months later than the planned opening. We just accept it.

Well, I would be happy to find a way to hold these people accountable, how do we do it?

networkn

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#2320320 19-Sep-2019 13:25

MikeB4:

networkn:

tdgeek:

This Govt will be out next election.

They SHOULD be out next election, but I doubt it's that automatic. We disagree how bad this Government has been, but given how *I* think they have performed, I would have expected the polls should have been showing them in a really poor light even before this latest trainwreck, but the polls didn't reflect that. The cynic in me thinks a well timed wedding could be played along the line somewhere too once the dust settles. Either way, if JA seeks a second term as PM, she is in for a tough time during the debates. National need to find someone who can take her to task without being seen to "bully" her.

I cannot see the Coalition being exited in 2020. National has no real coalition partners (Act is nothing) and has no chance of making the treasury benches on its own. The current coalition even with all its failures currently stacks up better than the Simon Bridges disaster. As a long time National supporter I cannot see myself voting National while Bridges, Bennett and Collins are still there. I would want to see some talent, credibility and integrity back in National before voting for them.

I'd pay money to see a debate between Collins and Ardern :) I think Collins has a FAR superior working knowledge of the country, policy and what's going on than Ardern, and if she could keep her attitude in check (IE Debate the facts), JA wouldn't stand a chance in a debate on policy.

Bridges is unlikely to be leader. Possible options are Luxon and Mark Mitchell (who I expected to win last time). I'd be happy with Nikki Kaye too, though I think she has said she isn't interested.

I don't see much Talent, credibility or integrity in Labour.

I suspect if Winston goes (and God, please, let him go!) prior to the next election, I'd expect a much higher chance of NZF going with National, though Shane Jones is barely better and in some cases worse, as a replacement.

MikeB4

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#2320328 19-Sep-2019 13:36

networkn:

I'd pay money to see a debate between Collins and Ardern :) I think Collins has a FAR superior working knowledge of the country, policy and what's going on than Ardern, and if she could keep her attitude in check (IE Debate the facts), JA wouldn't stand a chance in a debate on policy.

Bridges is unlikely to be leader. Possible options are Luxon and Mark Mitchell (who I expected to win last time). I'd be happy with Nikki Kaye too, though I think she has said she isn't interested.

I don't see much Talent, credibility or integrity in Labour.

I suspect if Winston goes (and God, please, let him go!) prior to the next election, I'd expect a much higher chance of NZF going with National, though Shane Jones is barely better and in some cases worse, as a replacement.

Debates are just words and we don't need more words. We need meaningful action by people that know what they are doing. Our economy is still in growth, just, but that is by good luck than good management and most other areas are in a confused state with poor leadership . I honestly don't see National doing any better. I may have missed it but Luxon has not confirmed he is going to enter politics or what party he sees himself in.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2320329 19-Sep-2019 13:37

networkn:

tdgeek:

This Govt will be out next election.

They SHOULD be out next election, but I doubt it's that automatic. We disagree how bad this Government has been, but given how *I* think they have performed, I would have expected the polls should have been showing them in a really poor light even before this latest trainwreck, but the polls didn't reflect that. The cynic in me thinks a well timed wedding could be played along the line somewhere too once the dust settles. Either way, if JA seeks a second term as PM, she is in for a tough time during the debates. National need to find someone who can take her to task without being seen to "bully" her.

Bridges will be gone, there is no question, that give National a large boost. Probably Crusher. NZF may poll poorly if they want out of Labour/Greens or of they tell Peters its National not Labour if he is kingmaker again. Thats how I see it

Yes we disagree on extent. KB was a great idea but too late, affordability was already lost, and it wont cost NZ billions. The sticky bit for me was did they now nthis and went after votes anyway? Or just keen and inexperienced? The latest trainwreck wasnt governing and policies, but it will stick. So, the winning alone has gone, so its back to Peters and I dont think NZF will allow another Labour Coalition, so thats gone.

Wedding? As in JA?

Debates yes, a lot to answer for, but she needs to man up and point her finger too.

Mathematically, yes I do feel its automatic now. Labour are always on the cusp of not getting the required votes in any election. If they do GREAT they can win, but to remain they have to be very good. National can get away with not bad and retain power, as the inherent balance in NZ favours National, they are just that little bit more popular. That can ebb and flow when there are tough times or good times

Rikkitic

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#2320330 19-Sep-2019 13:37

Apropos to nothing in particular, Nikki Kaye is one of the few National politicians who doesn't make me want to have a stiff drink. And another. And another.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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tdgeek

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#2320331 19-Sep-2019 13:40

MikeB4:

Debates are just words and we don't need more words. We need meaningful action by people that know what they are doing. Our economy is still in growth, just, but that is by good luck than good management and most other areas are in a confused state with poor leadership . I honestly don't see National doing any better. I may have missed it but Luxon has not confirmed he is going to enter politics or what party he sees himself in.

Labour has the intent but failed to materialise that. Experience told

National doesnt have the intent. Sit on hands play safe, keep the money till they have to spend some, thats a conservative Govt, which is what NZ generally votes for

GV27

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#2320332 19-Sep-2019 13:41

networkn:

Well, I would be happy to find a way to hold these people accountable, how do we do it?

That's the rub, isn't it? Labour had the best of intentions with things like LRT or Kiwibuild, but have proved utterly incapable of moving the public service in a direction that actually makes anything actually happen.

I suspect there is some entrenched issues in certain government departments that nothing short of a 1984-scale clear-out would deal with.

I really don't know what the answer is. National doesn't want to build anything other than six lane highways in rural backwaters with the expectation Aucklanders will pay for those, but is totally against building anything the city needs or wants. And Labour supposedly wants to but just can't.

It's all well and good articulating and quantifying things like "well-being" but being stuck in congestion instead of being able to get to work or spend time with your kids is just an unfortunate blindspot that some people seem very happy to have.

Rikkitic

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#2320334 19-Sep-2019 13:44

I would just add that a year is a very long time in politics. The coalition may or may not be able to win another election, but National could certainly lose one. It is not really any better than Labour at keeping its house in order and there is plenty of time for any number of election-killing scandals to occur. What voters will remember is the most recent one. Maybe Nicky Hager will publish another book. Maybe the ongoing defense scandal will get even worse. Maybe there will be a different sex scandal. Anything is possible.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#2320336 19-Sep-2019 13:47

I would like to see National bring two folks into their leadership that are not in the top eight. Maybe Todd Muller and Melissa Lee.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2320342 19-Sep-2019 13:55

MikeB4:

I would like to see National bring two folks into their leadership that are not in the top eight. Maybe Todd Muller and Melissa Lee.

Along those lines perhaps, yes. Labour needs to throw the the same at the public. Admissions, and changes. Their single point to offer is we were new, we screwed up, we know more now. But its easier to go with the low action safe party, ultimately.

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GV27

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#2320345 19-Sep-2019 14:00

tdgeek:

But its easier to go with the low action safe party, ultimately.

It's kind of telling I'm not sure which party you're actually referring to here.

networkn

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#2320352 19-Sep-2019 14:11

GV27:

tdgeek:

But its easier to go with the low action safe party, ultimately.

It's kind of telling I'm not sure which party you're actually referring to here.

Not sure what universe Labour could be described in this manner ;)

tdgeek

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#2320355 19-Sep-2019 14:19

networkn:

GV27:

tdgeek:

But its easier to go with the low action safe party, ultimately.

It's kind of telling I'm not sure which party you're actually referring to here.

Not sure what universe Labour could be described in this manner ;)

The parallel universe of course

One party is low action, safe

The other is high action and unsafe

I thought it was quite clear actually :-)

tdgeek

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#2320359 19-Sep-2019 14:22

Nice to observe that while we all don't agree, which at times is an understatemnent, its been civil. And constructive

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