Our new coalition government.

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#2352728 13-Nov-2019 12:00

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

I cannot vote for Labour, their record of non achievement is astounding. I cannot vote National while Simon Bridges, Paula Bennet and Judith Collins are still there. I cannot vote NZ Green while bigots remain. I cannot vote NZ First while Shane Jones, Winston Peters and the rest of the crew are still there, actually I cannot vote NZ First period.

Non achievement is across both main parties. As is bigotry

if you don't vote that's your democratic choice, but you wont be eligible to complain later. As you know NZ is a racist country, whether we like to admit that or not. So, we are better to vote, with noise about what we find unacceptable from the lawmakers as well as from ourselves.

And that is why "non of the above" should be a valid "democratic" choice on ballot papers. Voting for someone or a party because they were the best of a bad bunch is stupid. No, not voting does NOT mean you cannot complain. Not voting is a democratic option and is certainly more honest and sensible to voting for an idiot because the other idiots are worse, that is how you get Donald Trumps and Scott Morrisons as leaders.

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#2352732 13-Nov-2019 12:12

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

I cannot vote for Labour, their record of non achievement is astounding. I cannot vote National while Simon Bridges, Paula Bennet and Judith Collins are still there. I cannot vote NZ Green while bigots remain. I cannot vote NZ First while Shane Jones, Winston Peters and the rest of the crew are still there, actually I cannot vote NZ First period.

Non achievement is across both main parties. As is bigotry

if you don't vote that's your democratic choice, but you wont be eligible to complain later. As you know NZ is a racist country, whether we like to admit that or not. So, we are better to vote, with noise about what we find unacceptable from the lawmakers as well as from ourselves.

And that is why "non of the above" should be a valid "democratic" choice on ballot papers. Voting for someone or a party because they were the best of a bad bunch is stupid. No, not voting does NOT mean you cannot complain. Not voting is a democratic option and is certainly more honest and sensible to voting for an idiot because the other idiots are worse, that is how you get Donald Trumps and Scott Morrisons as leaders.

We can all not vote then. Not sure what happens then, but say the Queen blew off all MP's and had them replaced. You end up with a cross section of NZ, which will still include bigots and racists. You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up

Rikkitic

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#2352736 13-Nov-2019 12:24

Not voting is also a choice, and if it is done for a reason other than indifference, I think it is a valid choice. Across multiple elections, I have been consistently disappointed by the poor quality of choices available. I had high hopes for this government under Jacinda Ardern but I am very disappointed by its failures and self-inflicted wounds. I had hoped (perhaps foolishly) for much better.

I am disillusioned but as of this moment, I still intend to cast a vote. There is just too much at stake, especially with the referendums. If nothing changes between now and the election, I will vote for the Greens. I will hold my nose as I do, but I still view them as the least worst option. National's policies and some of its people frankly repulse me; I could not imagine ever voting for them. Already they are starting with the cheap and low populist beneficiary bashing. They are simply despicable. I would not place my trust in them to save my life.

I don't believe in MMP or any system based on political parties, certainly not the way it is done here, and I would not vote for a large party like Labour as a matter of principle, even if they hadn't shown themselves to be hopelessly incompetent. I vote for minority parties in the hope that they have at least some effect in keeping the ruling parties honest. Because of the appalling lack of choice in this country, that leaves me with the Greens.

I will keep a hopeful eye out on the new parties, but so far nothing I have seen would make me want to vote for any of them. In any case, I don't want my vote wasted, so will not spend it on any party that does not seem to have a realistic chance of gaining at least one seat.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2352739 13-Nov-2019 12:32

Mahon:

tdgeek:

I have the blue pamphlet they sent out. Our Bottom Line. Its great, it fixes everything. But thats what policies always say, big ideas no action. Nats have avoided real policies for a while. It was the 3 term fail for Labour as expected, and Labour was a mess for all those years. They need policies now

You wont see most National policies for a while yet. Why would any opposition party publish all their policies a year from an election. Don't knock them for that....

Im not knocking them, I'm eager to see. The list is a long one, fixing everything. It states they are developing policies. So, the expectation has already been laid down, fixing everything. Including dry houses. Houses that are not too much to afford. Looking forward to the deets as they say

Mahon

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#2352796 13-Nov-2019 14:30

tdgeek:

Mahon:

tdgeek:

I have the blue pamphlet they sent out. Our Bottom Line. Its great, it fixes everything. But thats what policies always say, big ideas no action. Nats have avoided real policies for a while. It was the 3 term fail for Labour as expected, and Labour was a mess for all those years. They need policies now

You wont see most National policies for a while yet. Why would any opposition party publish all their policies a year from an election. Don't knock them for that....

Im not knocking them, I'm eager to see. The list is a long one, fixing everything. It states they are developing policies. So, the expectation has already been laid down, fixing everything. Including dry houses. Houses that are not too much to afford. Looking forward to the deets as they say

They will never promise to fix everything unlike what we have seen recently. Usually their election bribes are reasonable, modest and achievable. You may not agree with them, but they are usually solid.

Mahon

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#2352798 13-Nov-2019 14:31

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

I cannot vote for Labour, their record of non achievement is astounding. I cannot vote National while Simon Bridges, Paula Bennet and Judith Collins are still there. I cannot vote NZ Green while bigots remain. I cannot vote NZ First while Shane Jones, Winston Peters and the rest of the crew are still there, actually I cannot vote NZ First period.

Non achievement is across both main parties. As is bigotry

if you don't vote that's your democratic choice, but you wont be eligible to complain later. As you know NZ is a racist country, whether we like to admit that or not. So, we are better to vote, with noise about what we find unacceptable from the lawmakers as well as from ourselves.

And that is why "non of the above" should be a valid "democratic" choice on ballot papers. Voting for someone or a party because they were the best of a bad bunch is stupid. No, not voting does NOT mean you cannot complain. Not voting is a democratic option and is certainly more honest and sensible to voting for an idiot because the other idiots are worse, that is how you get Donald Trumps and Scott Morrisons as leaders.

We can all not vote then. Not sure what happens then, but say the Queen blew off all MP's and had them replaced. You end up with a cross section of NZ, which will still include bigots and racists. You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up

That is a silly thing to say as you know very well that will never happen.

MikeB4

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#2352804 13-Nov-2019 14:48

tdgeek:

We can all not vote then. Not sure what happens then, but say the Queen blew off all MP's and had them replaced. You end up with a cross section of NZ, which will still include bigots and racists. You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up

I think the first part of your reply is a bit of reductio ad absurdum so I shall pass on that. The second part of your reply "You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up" nothing sends a clearer message to a politician than not voting for him or her. Voting for a politician encourages them so not voting for them sends them into a tailspin and sends a very clear message that you don't want them.

Quic Broadband

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tdgeek

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#2352881 13-Nov-2019 18:59

Mahon:

tdgeek:

Mahon:

tdgeek:

I have the blue pamphlet they sent out. Our Bottom Line. Its great, it fixes everything. But thats what policies always say, big ideas no action. Nats have avoided real policies for a while. It was the 3 term fail for Labour as expected, and Labour was a mess for all those years. They need policies now

You wont see most National policies for a while yet. Why would any opposition party publish all their policies a year from an election. Don't knock them for that....

Im not knocking them, I'm eager to see. The list is a long one, fixing everything. It states they are developing policies. So, the expectation has already been laid down, fixing everything. Including dry houses. Houses that are not too much to afford. Looking forward to the deets as they say

They will never promise to fix everything unlike what we have seen recently. Usually their election bribes are reasonable, modest and achievable. You may not agree with them, but they are usually solid.

Ive voted for them far more than not. Have you read their mail out? The election bribes are tax cuts. Yet then we found we can't afford this or afford the, which ti me, means tax cuts are not an option. $2000 per year for everyone isn't a modest option.

Read their mail out.

tdgeek

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#2352883 13-Nov-2019 19:01

Mahon:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

I cannot vote for Labour, their record of non achievement is astounding. I cannot vote National while Simon Bridges, Paula Bennet and Judith Collins are still there. I cannot vote NZ Green while bigots remain. I cannot vote NZ First while Shane Jones, Winston Peters and the rest of the crew are still there, actually I cannot vote NZ First period.

Non achievement is across both main parties. As is bigotry

if you don't vote that's your democratic choice, but you wont be eligible to complain later. As you know NZ is a racist country, whether we like to admit that or not. So, we are better to vote, with noise about what we find unacceptable from the lawmakers as well as from ourselves.

And that is why "non of the above" should be a valid "democratic" choice on ballot papers. Voting for someone or a party because they were the best of a bad bunch is stupid. No, not voting does NOT mean you cannot complain. Not voting is a democratic option and is certainly more honest and sensible to voting for an idiot because the other idiots are worse, that is how you get Donald Trumps and Scott Morrisons as leaders.

We can all not vote then. Not sure what happens then, but say the Queen blew off all MP's and had them replaced. You end up with a cross section of NZ, which will still include bigots and racists. You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up

That is a silly thing to say as you know very well that will never happen.

Why is it silly? I was responding to Mike who feels that not voting for anyone is fine, hence my post

tdgeek

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#2352896 13-Nov-2019 19:05

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

We can all not vote then. Not sure what happens then, but say the Queen blew off all MP's and had them replaced. You end up with a cross section of NZ, which will still include bigots and racists. You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up

I think the first part of your reply is a bit of reductio ad absurdum so I shall pass on that. The second part of your reply "You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up" nothing sends a clearer message to a politician than not voting for him or her. Voting for a politician encourages them so not voting for them sends them into a tailspin and sends a very clear message that you don't want them.

Mike, you said its valid not to vote for anyone, so my response is valid. Your idea that its valid to not vote, so what if everyone didn't vote?? Thats absurd.

Its better to loudly voice your abhorrence of their bigotry than not vote for them. Thats what the media is for, to call people out as well as promote the Kardashians and Mark Richardson. Not voting for them is a silent message where the reason is silent. If the media did there job, they would call them out, but they don't

JaseNZ

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#2353475 14-Nov-2019 16:58

I know this is just a generalisation but am just venting and wish that Porno Jones would just go away.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

tdgeek

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#2353493 14-Nov-2019 18:07

JaseNZ:

I know this is just a generalisation but am just venting and wish that Porno Jones would just go away.

I concur. Instead of a gold watch, a years sub to pronhub

Handle9

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#2353596 14-Nov-2019 22:52

JaseNZ:

I know this is just a generalisation but am just venting and wish that Porno Jones would just go away.

Valid.

Also the protesters really did seem like the lowest common denominator.

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#2353608 15-Nov-2019 00:22

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

We can all not vote then. Not sure what happens then, but say the Queen blew off all MP's and had them replaced. You end up with a cross section of NZ, which will still include bigots and racists. You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up

I think the first part of your reply is a bit of reductio ad absurdum so I shall pass on that. The second part of your reply "You are better to be vocal to the parties to clean themselves up" nothing sends a clearer message to a politician than not voting for him or her. Voting for a politician encourages them so not voting for them sends them into a tailspin and sends a very clear message that you don't want them.

In the past perhaps but not today - at least not in many western democracies. With record low turnouts a core part of election strategy is to get your base to turn out and suppress the oppositions turn out.

If you are a swing voter they are often happy if you stay home. This is particularly true for conservative parties as their base is normally older and more likely to vote.

GV27

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#2357073 19-Nov-2019 08:27

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117509589/nz-first-foundation-dodging-electoral-rules-records-suggest-breaches

Am I just posting the same link over and over again? I can't tell anymore.

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