The Prime Minister and the waitress

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#1290424 23-Apr-2015 21:48

DaveB: Quote of the day - which I am sure was about an interview this morning with Marilyn Waring re "Ponygate". Not sure who made the quote, but boy, I can just close my eyes and visualize this one:-

"Was driving to work listening to Waring on the car radio and could SEE the virtriol just OOZING out of the car speakers". Perhaps she was Amanda's scriptwriter?

I don't know what was said ...

But, Marilyn Waring (past National MP) has stood up to a lot of bullying in her time.

Geektastic

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#1290436 23-Apr-2015 22:17

sidefx: Since we're arguing semantics (not sure why, but oh well) can someone tell me how pulling hair doesn't constitute "intentionally applying [...]force to the person of another"

Genuinely interested, especially since we seem to have so many knowledgeable people in the area of law in the thread.

There has to be more than intention and application of force - otherwise shaking hands would constitute assault.

1cloud

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#1290445 23-Apr-2015 22:37

freitasm: No, not a slow news day. It's really something that you don't do, specially if someone says "Stop".

[Edit: removed the GIF of PM previously playing with a small girls' hair to avoid confusion. READ THE LINK IN THE OP]

sidefx

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#1290452 23-Apr-2015 22:47

Geektastic:
There has to be more than intention and application of force - otherwise shaking hands would constitute assault.

Perhaps shaking hands isn't the best example, given it's a reciprocal interaction, whereas pulling someones hair certainly is not.

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Dratsab

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#1290459 23-Apr-2015 23:05

KiwiNZ:
Dratsab: I've read it in its entirety which is how I DO know what you've been posting and was able to subsequently refer back. It's called keeping up. If you're not able to do this, as your last few posts suggest, perhaps simply refrain from posting at all as all your doing is creating an off topic distraction instead of debating the actual subject at hand.

At the end of the day, if I hear quacking I'm gonna point out there's a duck in the room...

So because I happen to disagree with your opinion with regards to assault and stated that with out insulting inferences you chose to respond twice with insulting inferences, you may wish to read again the FUG

No - because you deliberately ignored what was actually being discussed and made a completely out of context, and therefore irrelevant, post I called you out on it. If you don't like it keep up with what's actually being discussed.

KiwiNZ:
networkn: Unless I am mistaken you have used a Wikipedia definition and Dratsab is quoting from the NZ Law which relates to it, so it's not so much opinion as you disagree with the NZ law?

No, mine is a quote from the definitions detailed in Section 2 of the Crimes act 1961

And here we have a classic example of disingenuity. Let me refresh your memory for you:

At 1131hrs on 22 April 2015 you posted a definition of assault (without attribution I might add) from Wikipedia. That definition is not the definition found under New Zealand law.
At 1333hrs on 22 April 2015 you advised surfisup1000 to acquaint himself with the definition of assault and repeated the above (incorrect) Wikipedia definition.
At 1212hrs on 23 April 2015 I pointed out your error and linked to the definition of assault as found in both the Crimes Act 1961 and the Summary Offences Act 1981 (section 2 in both cases)
At 1348hrs on 23 April 2015 ajobbins linked to an article in which it stated the PM could also be investigated for common assault for "hostile touching" - an unusual term to say the least.
At 1355hrs on 23 April 2015 I said I had read that and laughed.
At 1403hrs on 23 April 2015 I was asked why. Quite rightly so.
At 1631hrs on 23 April 2015 I gave my answer as to why, addressing my take the hostility point.
At 1644hrs on 23 April 2015 you quoted the definition of assault from ss2 of the Crimes Act 1961 and the Summary Offences Act 1981, stating hostility is not mentioned, clearly demonstrating you were either not following the discussions at hand or were just trolling. I queried which.

Carrying on from there you're now trying to claim I'm insulting you because you disagree with my opinion of assault when in fact I've a. simply pointed out your error and b. pointed you in the right direction of the correct definition and c. posted a response to a link which references the term "hostile touching" and d. queried as to why you're jumping in on this and posting out of context. Further to this you now seem to be trying to gloss over the fact you've quoted an incorrect definition from Wikipedia, as though it never happened.

On top of all this you're choosing to be insulted by my posts. If that's what you want to do that's up to you. Report them to a moderator if you think I'm out of order. There's an "Options" button at the bottom of every post. Hover your mouse over this button on my offending posts and select "Report" from the pop-up menu. If the adjudicating mod agrees with your position, I'll withdraw and apologise.

Back on topic!

sidefx: Since we're arguing semantics (not sure why, but oh well) can someone tell me how pulling hair doesn't constitute "intentionally applying [...]force to the person of another"

Genuinely interested, especially since we seem to have so many knowledgeable people in the area of law in the thread.

It does constitute intentionally applying force to the person of another. However, it's not like he's hauled back and caused pain. The way it's presented (from both sides) he's given her hair a little tweak on a number of occasions, believing he was being playful, perhaps even funny. The fact he was completely wrong in his belief does not constitute malice. This combined with the force applied being trivial, makes the assault one of a technical nature. Hundreds of thousands of these technical assaults would occur every day across the nation.

The difference here is the repeated nature of the offending, the massive power imbalance and the high office held by the perpetrator. People of high office and/or positions of authority are usually (but should always be) held to a much higher level of responsibility than Joe or Jane Public due to the very nature of their position. All of this combined leads to the situation playing out before us now.

jonathan18

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#1290465 23-Apr-2015 23:12

At 2312hrs on 23 April 2015 I came to the realisation that some people have too much time on their hands.

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geekiegeek

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#1290484 23-Apr-2015 23:40

I just hope that this doesn't interfere with the commemorations of ANZAC day. I don't care if you are for Key or against in this matter. I just hope that for one day we can put all of this aside and make it about our ancestors who made this nation what it is today.

michael001

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#1290526 24-Apr-2015 05:53

heylinb4nz: ...

Personally I think its great that our PM is real person \ kiwi bloke and isnt afraid to show his non political side, who hasn't initiated some horseplay at work or at a shop where you are a well known regular (in this case a famous well known regular). We used to be able to do this before all this PC nonsense....its a Kiwi thing.
...

Do you get a coffee in the morning? Instead of waiting patiently for your coffee this morning I want you to reach over and start playing with the waitresses hair.

Still think this is normal 'kiwi bloke' behavior? Two things needs to happen, first I think we need someone in law enforcement to check you out - and secondly could you give me enough non identifying information about yourself so I can make efforts to keep my family safe from you - you sir, are very dangerous.

MikeB4

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#1290541 24-Apr-2015 07:43

To bring this episode to an end I believe that Mr Key needs to address the issue openly and honestly and not in the usual flippant way that he normally does with his either I forget, I had brain fade or it was just some fun methods.
This is a serious issue with serious connotations and has been damaging to NewZealand internationally. It is not the time for spin doctors. It could be that it needs to be finalized in court.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

NZCrusader

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#1290556 24-Apr-2015 08:19

KiwiNZ: To bring this episode to an end I believe that Mr Key needs to address the issue openly and honestly and not in the usual flippant way that he normally does with his either I forget, I had brain fade or it was just some fun methods.
This is a serious issue with serious connotations and has been damaging to NewZealand internationally. It is not the time for spin doctors. It could be that it needs to be finalized in court.

We (as a country) have more important issues to deal with, than a couple of people wanting 5 minutes of fame, dishonest reporters and some bloggers with political agendas.

Don't be a dinosaur bro.

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MikeB4

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#1290568 24-Apr-2015 08:59

NZCrusader:
KiwiNZ: To bring this episode to an end I believe that Mr Key needs to address the issue openly and honestly and not in the usual flippant way that he normally does with his either I forget, I had brain fade or it was just some fun methods.
This is a serious issue with serious connotations and has been damaging to NewZealand internationally. It is not the time for spin doctors. It could be that it needs to be finalized in court.

We (as a country) have more important issues to deal with, than a couple of people wanting 5 minutes of fame, dishonest reporters and some bloggers with political agendas.

Don't be a dinosaur bro.

Letting it drag on does more damage and fuels the fame seekers. It is better to deal with it and close it.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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surfisup1000

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#1290571 24-Apr-2015 09:00

michael001:
heylinb4nz: ...

Personally I think its great that our PM is real person \ kiwi bloke and isnt afraid to show his non political side, who hasn't initiated some horseplay at work or at a shop where you are a well known regular (in this case a famous well known regular). We used to be able to do this before all this PC nonsense....its a Kiwi thing.
...

Do you get a coffee in the morning? Instead of waiting patiently for your coffee this morning I want you to reach over and start playing with the waitresses hair.

Still think this is normal 'kiwi bloke' behavior? Two things needs to happen, first I think we need someone in law enforcement to check you out - and secondly could you give me enough non identifying information about yourself so I can make efforts to keep my family safe from you - you sir, are very dangerous.

I've reached the opinion that many GZ people are soulless fun police.

I'm gonna go out and do some jaywalking now. Catch me if you can.... it is an evil crime, worthy of execution.

mattbush

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#1290572 24-Apr-2015 09:01

NZCrusader:
KiwiNZ: To bring this episode to an end I believe that Mr Key needs to address the issue openly and honestly and not in the usual flippant way that he normally does with his either I forget, I had brain fade or it was just some fun methods.
This is a serious issue with serious connotations and has been damaging to NewZealand internationally. It is not the time for spin doctors. It could be that it needs to be finalized in court.

We (as a country) have more important issues to deal with, than a couple of people wanting 5 minutes of fame, dishonest reporters and some bloggers with political agendas.

Don't be a dinosaur bro.

Don't underestimate the intentions of the waitress. [Moderator removed]

She had a sincere personal apology in front of several people and a gift which she accepted.
She then made her song and dance and got a public apology..

Jeez...

[Moderator edit (MF): calling people names is never ok.]

maverick

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WorldxChange

#1290575 24-Apr-2015 09:06

The guy is human and made a mistake by misreading the situation it seems .. what more can he do but apologise as he did when he come to understand it was an issue

She accepts or she doesn't .. the media really suck sometimes

Simple mistake people.. move on

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sidefx

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#1290579 24-Apr-2015 09:08

surfisup1000:
I've reached the opinion that many GZ people are soulless fun police.

I've reached the opinion that many GZ people will blindly defend an action which most people would consider out of order purely because of their political leanings and bias.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
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