When will NZ get equal rights for ALL citizens?

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Forums › Politics › When will NZ get equal rights for ALL citizens?

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cgrew

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#400710 5-Nov-2010 12:47

Haha thought so

Speaking of modern day society moving away from traditional religious views and aspects, maybe that could be seen as a bad thing and a possible cause as to why modern day society has so much violence/crime/abortions/binge-drinking and foul language portrayed through the media and in our society..

I'm sure if you went back 50 years when there was more "structure" in society with say the church for example; it was surely not as bad as it is today.

Just a thought..

Jaxson

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#400715 5-Nov-2010 12:54

Yeah I think that's right but there are many reasons for that I'm sure. Would be overly simplistic to say it was simply due to us straying from the church. But yes you are also correct in that it's clearly a different society here now that it ever was back then, for better or for worse.

They didn't have the internet, V drinks, Suzanne Paul, Cell Phones, 91 unleaded, gay people (apparently), GTA games on PS3s, heck PS3s or i anything Phones/Pads/tunes etc back then either. Which one of them is to blame?

cgrew

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#400728 5-Nov-2010 13:06

Haha very true - I'm sure technology does play a big part in the changes in today's society and ermm Suzanne Paul as well, don't forget Paul Holmes?!

But as for the cause of change? Sometimes all it can take is a simple factor as to why there is so much change in today's industrialized "modern" world..

Peace have a good weekend!

Shadowfoot

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#400901 5-Nov-2010 18:03

The problem with the adoption law is that a non-married couple cannot jointly adopt a child but a married couple can.

Picture the situation where a couple in a civil union adopt and raise a child for 10 years. Legally only one half of the couple is a parent; the other having no legal rights. If the adoptive parent dies then the non-adoptive parent has no rights. This is not a good thing. A married couple does not have this problem. This is not a gay/straight equality issue. It is an issue about an archaic regulation that assumes only one type of relationship is beneficial to children.

The problem with civil unions is inequality. A heterosexual couple can choose either marriage or civil union. A gay couple is denied the choice. This is not equality, even if the most of the rights are the same. A hetrosexual couple can sit at the front or the back of the bus; a gay couple must sit at the back of the bus.

New Zealand recognises a polygamous marriage when it is legally entered into under the laws of the appropriate country. It does not recognise a gay marriage entered into under the laws of the appropriate country; it converts it into a civil union. This is not equality.

I'm a gay man who opposed the law change around civil unions. I do not want to be legislated as a second-class citizen with less rights. My parents got married in a registry office. Yes, married without a church blessing. They did not have a civil union.

Do not tell me that all unions should be civil unions, and only church unions should be marriages. Our culture has changed. Marriage is no longer about property rights, when a husband "owns" his wife and children.

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oxnsox

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#400912 5-Nov-2010 18:48

Jaxson: The more I think about this, the more I think having some sort of *church based ritual linked to a bunch of laws in the nation seems pretty odd. .... (edit).....
* I know a lot of people do not view marriage as a church based activity, just being a bit historical about it. A bit like how we are forced to take Christmas/Easter holidays in this country, which are religious events.

Historically I think you'll find Religion was the law... or a variation on the theme of law...

If societies couldn't do things for Legal reasons they did them for Religious ones because where the local church may not have been the state it certainly enacted the laws which dictated what was an acceptable society... if the Church was not with the State it was against the State...,

Religious persecution, secularisation and warmongering (in the name of the church) follows......

As for your comment on numbers falling in Churches, I think thats a view based upon traditional religions. Driving thru some parts of Auckland I notice all types of modern 'Churches', based in commercial buildings and warehouses...

And didn't they just built a new multi-secular church at Eden Park
for those who worship rugby.....

nakedmolerat

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#400916 5-Nov-2010 18:58

im clueless why gay couple want to get married?

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kyhwana2

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#400927 5-Nov-2010 19:23

nakedmolerat: im clueless why gay couple want to get married?

Because they love each other and want the same legal protection as straight couples?

Shadowfoot

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#400990 5-Nov-2010 22:22

nakedmolerat: im clueless why gay couple want to get married?

Why would a straight couple want to get married?

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nakedmolerat

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#401276 7-Nov-2010 00:32

Shadowfoot:
nakedmolerat: im clueless why gay couple want to get married?

Why would a straight couple want to get married?

religion (esp abrahamic)

tardtasticx

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#405983 17-Nov-2010 16:44

Gah, I think my biggest obstacle before anything is my family right now. Dad (who doesnt know I'm gay) isn't happy I'm going on holiday in Jan with a mate whos gay (we dont go out we're just best mates) and he doesn't seem to like the idea of a gay son. He actually said to me today "If you are gay Sam, I'll still love you but I'll be extremely disappointed in you." To me that's worse than not being loved. Closed minded people don't deserve children.

oxnsox

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#406001 17-Nov-2010 17:58

Its most likely a generational thing rather than closed minded.

Things we don't understand, or don't want to, fear us... it's human nature. My guess is that your Dad knows but doesn't want to deal with it (as in deal with understanding how being gay changes you as a person... which it doesn't, but thats kind of hard for some folks to understand).

By saying what he said may be his way of talking about it. Maybe if you put it in a better context back to him he'd see how weird a view it was. ( So you're saying if I asthma' you'd still love me but be disappointed with me???)

There's really only 2 things you family have to get their heads around:
- This didn't just happen overnight, so it's not going to un-happen... it's who you are.
- Who cares what the neighbours think.

So back on topic... if they're really really worried just tell them it's ok cause you can't marry a bloke : )

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tardtasticx

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#406064 17-Nov-2010 20:29

oxnsox: Its most likely a generational thing rather than closed minded.

Things we don't understand, or don't want to, fear us... it's human nature. My guess is that your Dad knows but doesn't want to deal with it (as in deal with understanding how being gay changes you as a person... which it doesn't, but thats kind of hard for some folks to understand).

By saying what he said may be his way of talking about it. Maybe if you put it in a better context back to him he'd see how weird a view it was. ( So you're saying if I asthma' you'd still love me but be disappointed with me???)

There's really only 2 things you family have to get their heads around:
- This didn't just happen overnight, so it's not going to un-happen... it's who you are.
- Who cares what the neighbours think.

So back on topic... if they're really really worried just tell them it's ok cause you can't marry a bloke : )

I can't understand why my dad and other older people find it so hard to accept change. This current world is changing 24/7. Me being gay and him finding out is like, saying your a vegan when you have never eaten meat before. I've never had a girlfriend before. He still has a son but he's not the one thats going to be in a relationship with someone of the same gender.

ScottStevensNZ

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#406769 19-Nov-2010 15:30

tardtasticx:
billgates: I fully support you.

What do you think John Key's stance on this is? I couldn't really find anything about it. Might consider writing to him?

Might have been said before but at big gay out 2 years ago, JK said that there would be no rollback of exisiting legislation and rights enshrined in said legislation. The flip side of course is that there will be no new initiatives :/

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ScottStevensNZ

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#406775 19-Nov-2010 15:40

geekiegeek: I'm not saying that gay people would make bad parents. I'm just saying that I think that it is changing the natural order of things and I personally dont agree with that.

No Anti-Biotics for you! :P

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