Our new coalition government.

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#2516800 3-Jul-2020 14:43

Fred99:

FWIW - and anecdote: My SO has been networking with global leaders in her field over the past few months, zoom meetings with people from all over the planet.

Every single time new people join, the same off-topic comments - huge admiration for JA and NZ.

That's because the PM is very good at converting national crises into personal celebrity. It's all about her.

A good example being the ChCh massacres. It's a pretty awful person IMO who leverages that awful tragedy to bolster her own international reputation and that is exactly what I believe Ardern has done.

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Rikkitic

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#2516812 3-Jul-2020 15:11

MikeAqua:

That's because the PM is very good at converting national crises into personal celebrity. It's all about her.

A good example being the ChCh massacres. It's a pretty awful person IMO who leverages that awful tragedy to bolster her own international reputation and that is exactly what I believe Ardern has done.

That is a pretty mean and small-minded statement. From your other posts I actually thought you were better than that. Some people, and presumably you are one, simply do not approve of the PM's politics, whether because you just don't like Labour, or progressive ideas, or whatever, so you go frantically scrabbling about for anything you can find or invent to cast her in the worst possible light. This is New Zealand tall poppy syndrome at its very worst. Shame on you.

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#2516876 3-Jul-2020 16:24

MikeAqua:

A good example being the ChCh massacres. It's a pretty awful person IMO who leverages that awful tragedy to bolster her own international reputation and that is exactly what I believe Ardern has done.

Well that says one hell of a lot more about your judgement, morality, and sanity than it does about hers.

You're being a troll. Maybe you should take a holiday from GZ.

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#2516883 3-Jul-2020 16:33

Fred99:
MikeAqua:

A good example being the ChCh massacres. It's a pretty awful person IMO who leverages that awful tragedy to bolster her own international reputation and that is exactly what I believe Ardern has done.

Well that says one hell of a lot more about your judgement, morality, and sanity than it does about hers.

You're being a troll. Maybe you should take a holiday from GZ.

Lol. Next Mike will get called partisan, political, racist or whatever other name you feel like calling him for having an option that doesn't match with your world view.

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#2516891 3-Jul-2020 16:47

Handle9:

Lol. Next Mike will get called partisan, political, racist or whatever other name you feel like calling him for having an option that doesn't match with your world view.

That's delusional projection. It's "opinion" - not "option". Even the keys on your keyboard might appreciate it if you'd calm down and think - rather than anger-post.

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#2516894 3-Jul-2020 16:52

MikeAqua:
Fred99:

Your words:

Praise in public

'Scold' in private

What's it going to be - or do you have access to what's going on in private?

I'd be surprised if Clark has a future in politics. The "DCM" would have applied in business, but an electorate MP can't be "fired".

He should "do the right thing" and fall on his sword. Getting rid of him will be messy.

I would have thought this obvious, but I'll explain. If you have you have to give negative feedback you do it in private. If you have something positive to say to a subordinate you do it in front of others. These are long established tenants of leadership.

The former Minister of health threw Dr Bloomfield under the bus in public. As did the PM.

That's not how politics works. The media needs it to be someones fault in public. If the politician takes responsibility for a failure the. The screws get tightened on them, otherwise the focus goes on the bureaucracy.

The Key government were the Masters of making operational issues the fault of the bureaucracy while taking credit for the successes. Ardern is just following their playbook.

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#2516895 3-Jul-2020 16:53

Fred99:
Handle9:

Lol. Next Mike will get called partisan, political, racist or whatever other name you feel like calling him for having an option that doesn't match with your world view.

That's delusional projection. It's "opinion" - not "option". Even the keys on your keyboard might appreciate it if you'd calm down and think - rather than anger-post.

Hahaha. Too funny for words.

Both the mistake and you accusing someone else of rage posting.

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#2516897 3-Jul-2020 17:04

Handle9:

Both the mistake and you accusing someone else of rage posting.

You just don't get it do you?
You're stating that "next thing" I will accuse someone of XY&Z - and saying that would be bad, yet by that very accusation - it's exactly what you were doing.

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#2516903 3-Jul-2020 17:16

MikeAqua:

That's because the PM is very good at converting national crises into personal celebrity. It's all about her.

A good example being the ChCh massacres. It's a pretty awful person IMO who leverages that awful tragedy to bolster her own international reputation and that is exactly what I believe Ardern has done.

I disagree with your opinion, but I’m not going to attack you personally, because you are entitled to form any opinion you wish.

Rather than using tragedies like Christchurch and White Island to “bolster her international reputation”, I believe she reacted appropriately, with the compassion both occasions required. Perhaps what happened later on had a different affect.

The Covid 19 crisis needed an excellent communicator, and she is indeed that. The decisions were the important thing, not who announced them. Whether all the right decisions (by cabinet) were made, only history will tell.

It is others that have raised her to the level of sainthood, which says more about them than it does about her. And a sycophantic news media only bolster it more. She is first and foremost a socialist politician, with an agenda that has been interrupted by a series of crises.

Edit: Oops, there were a few posts while I was composing. That’s what happens when someone kicks a wasp nest.

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#2516906 3-Jul-2020 17:26

Fred99:

Handle9:

Both the mistake and you accusing someone else of rage posting.

You just don't get it do you?
You're stating that "next thing" I will accuse someone of XY&Z - and saying that would be bad, yet by that very accusation - it's exactly what you were doing.

I get it very well thanks. It's pretty amusing you are so outraged. Maybe you should take a break from geekzone.

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#2516909 3-Jul-2020 17:32

Dingbatt:

MikeAqua:

That's because the PM is very good at converting national crises into personal celebrity. It's all about her.

A good example being the ChCh massacres. It's a pretty awful person IMO who leverages that awful tragedy to bolster her own international reputation and that is exactly what I believe Ardern has done.

I disagree with your opinion, but I’m not going to attack you personally, because you are entitled to form any opinion you wish.

Rather than using tragedies like Christchurch and White Island to “bolster her international reputation”, I believe she reacted appropriately, with the compassion both occasions required. Perhaps what happened later on had a different affect.

The Covid 19 crisis needed an excellent communicator, and she is indeed that. The decisions were the important thing, not who announced them. Whether all the right decisions (by cabinet) were made, only history will tell.

It is others that have raised her to the level of sainthood, which says more about them than it does about her. And a sycophantic news media only bolster it more. She is first and foremost a socialist politician, with an agenda that has been interrupted by a series of crises.

Edit: Oops, there were a few posts while I was composing. That’s what happens when someone kicks a wasp nest.

I tend to agree with you but there is very little doubt that Ardern does love being an international darling.

It's a bit like the Bloomfield rollercoaster. One minute he's a saint, next he must immediately resign and immolate himself. That's just the world we live in, there's no ability for anyone to say they made a mistake and move on.

I think characterising Ardern as a socialist isn't really correct - at least not in the classical sense. She's much more of a third way politician. Lots of nice words but not any real socialist changes. Taxes on the wealthy haven't been raised, benefits and social welfare haven't been bolstered and there hasn't been any real reform of the labour law.

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Fred99

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#2516912 3-Jul-2020 17:41

Handle9:

It's pretty amusing you are so outraged.

What makes you think I'm "outraged"?

If foolish opinions outraged me, I wouldn't bother with political discussion. I enjoy it.

I don't agree with everything dingbat says above - nor your reply to him, but I don't consider them to be "foolish opinions" - most of it's pretty good. If someone says something truly dumb - then what's the problem with challenging it?

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#2516917 3-Jul-2020 17:58

Fred99:

Handle9:

It's pretty amusing you are so outraged.

What makes you think I'm "outraged"?

If foolish opinions outraged me, I wouldn't bother with political discussion. I enjoy it.

I don't agree with everything dingbat says above - nor your reply to him, but I don't consider them to be "foolish opinions" - most of it's pretty good. If someone says something truly dumb - then what's the problem with challenging it?

I don't have any problem with challenging a dumb post - I'm more than happy to do that. Assigning sinister motives or telling someone shame on you is silly, especially when the reasoning is quite well explained and there is a (perhaps faulty) logical interpretation being made.

It's not challenging the idea, it's shutting down the discussion. Having an argument about politics should get intense and challenging. Everyone (especially me) has some weird ideas, which is why it's good to discuss them.

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#2517069 3-Jul-2020 22:25

Rikkitic:

That is a pretty mean and small-minded statement. From your other posts I actually thought you were better than that. Some people, and presumably you are one, simply do not approve of the PM's politics, whether because you just don't like Labour, or progressive ideas, or whatever, so you go frantically scrabbling about for anything you can find or invent to cast her in the worst possible light. This is New Zealand tall poppy syndrome at its very worst. Shame on you

Can you explain what you mean by progressive ideas? I've seen one or two posters mention this or say they're progressive but I'm at a loss as to understand what they actually mean. Can you help me out?

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#2517099 4-Jul-2020 08:37

Handle9:

Assigning sinister motives or telling someone shame on you is silly, especially when the reasoning is quite well explained and there is a (perhaps faulty) logical interpretation being made.

The was nothing well-explained going on there. Ranting because someone - whose political views you don't share - rightly won global praise for doing the right things is simply being a dick.

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