Our new coalition government.

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#2517102 4-Jul-2020 08:43

Technofreak:

Can you explain what you mean by progressive ideas? I've seen one or two posters mention this or say they're progressive but I'm at a loss as to understand what they actually mean. Can you help me out?

Is this forum supposed to be a classroom?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

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#2517369 4-Jul-2020 21:32

Fred99:

Technofreak:

Can you explain what you mean by progressive ideas? I've seen one or two posters mention this or say they're progressive but I'm at a loss as to understand what they actually mean. Can you help me out?

Is this forum supposed to be a classroom?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

The article you linked is very light on detail. I wasn't looking for a generic answer.I was asking what another poster was meaning by progressive ideas

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#2517383 4-Jul-2020 22:18

Technofreak:

Can you explain what you mean by progressive ideas? I've seen one or two posters mention this or say they're progressive but I'm at a loss as to understand what they actually mean. Can you help me out?

If you don't understand what the concept of progressive political thought broadly stands for, you really shouldn't be participating in a discussion thread about a government that both self-identifies as progressive and attempts to act in such a fashion, whatever one thinks of their effectiveness or otherwise. After all, a true discussion requires at least a semi-informed exchange of ideas.

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#2517435 4-Jul-2020 23:10

Technofreak:
Can you explain what you mean by progressive ideas? I've seen one or two posters mention this or say they're progressive but I'm at a loss as to understand what they actually mean. Can you help me out?

Looks like you're waiting on an answer from @Rickkitic. I'll give it a go. In early 20th century USA, Progressive = things like ending child factory labour, votes for women, safe working conditions, the legal right to join a union, primary education. Mid 20th, ending segregation, equal rights for women. Late 20th, environment, etc.

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#2517467 5-Jul-2020 09:07

Why bother looking up a definition when you can come here and get schooled?

Using Wikipedia as a reference will at best get you the lecture room definition of progressivism and is in itself akin to looking in The Bible for a definition of what a good religion is.

Progressive politics is best summed up by our Prime Minister’s “Be Kind” message. That however is being drowned out by identity politics, social justice crusades, revisionist history, cancel culture and group think. Protest is only allowed if it supports your cause, because after all your cause is righteous, right? But people who disagree must be silenced. (/opinion)

By the same token Conservative politics is perhaps upholding the right of the individual but that is overtaken by the ‘me before you’ attitude and the ‘hands off this is mine’ mentality. As the majority of academia and media are ‘progressive’ that produces a disenfranchised section of the population who feel voiceless. That leads to the rise of politicians like Donald Trump, who despite major character flaws, knows which buttons to push. And unfortunately every statue that is toppled, every show that gets cancelled, every person that is silenced, just makes his following stronger. (/opinion)

We are lucky in NZ that our political landscape is milder and our election cycle short so that the worst excesses are avoided.

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#2517602 5-Jul-2020 16:07

Dingbatt,
"We are lucky in NZ that our political landscape is milder and our election cycle short so that the worst excesses are avoided."

Also the nature of our system without a President with attendant over-riding and separate powers.
The MPs can oust a Prime Minister. Like Australia this can be overused, but does keep everyone on their toes.

I suspect its one of the things that will continue to hold back any move to drop the Crown.
Replacement systems that are suggested all seem to be Presidential ones , with all the issues that may go with that.
So scares off support for change.

I'd more go for existing system, with an elected or appointed chief ombudsman, or some other name for a replacement for Governor General.
Essentially we appoint our Governor General anyway and Queen has little to do with it bar giving automatic ascent.
Like Governor General their role is pretty much ceremonial except when parliament is deadlocked and having trouble forming a stable Government.

I expect people would be more likely to go with that , rather than the Presidential, Upper and Lower House systems proposed.
No not more MPs please no.

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#2517626 5-Jul-2020 17:43

Dingbatt:

Why bother looking up a definition when you can come here and get schooled?

Using Wikipedia as a reference will at best get you the lecture room definition of progressivism and is in itself akin to looking in The Bible for a definition of what a good religion is.

Progressive politics is best summed up by our Prime Minister’s “Be Kind” message. That however is being drowned out by identity politics, social justice crusades, revisionist history, cancel culture and group think. Protest is only allowed if it supports your cause, because after all your cause is righteous, right? But people who disagree must be silenced. (/opinion)

By the same token Conservative politics is perhaps upholding the right of the individual but that is overtaken by the ‘me before you’ attitude and the ‘hands off this is mine’ mentality. As the majority of academia and media are ‘progressive’ that produces a disenfranchised section of the population who feel voiceless. That leads to the rise of politicians like Donald Trump, who despite major character flaws, knows which buttons to push. And unfortunately every statue that is toppled, every show that gets cancelled, every person that is silenced, just makes his following stronger. (/opinion)

We are lucky in NZ that our political landscape is milder and our election cycle short so that the worst excesses are avoided.

You missed out the bit where the roles are completely reversed in the bedroom.

The way I always look at it is conservative parties are good at keeping the trains running on time but fairly hopeless at making societal changes - they are conservative. They also tend toward authoritarianism and anyone different to the mainstream is seen as a threat.

Progressive (in contrast to mainstream socialist parties, which don't exist in the English speaking world anymore) look to create change in society. They have lots of good ideas and hope some of them can be implemented. They want the government to be responsible for everything, even stuff that is downright stupid.

Both have a place and are necessary at different times.

Fred99

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#2519897 9-Jul-2020 10:58

An article on Al Jazeera

How New Zealand's media endangered public health

A case can be made that the nation's media, laundering many of the opposition's attack lines and big business talking points, have repeatedly endangered public health.

This was driven not only by the country's clutch of prominent Fox News-style commentators - Mike Hosking, Heather du Plessis-Allan and Duncan Garner - each of whom hawks anger and division to drive ratings, but by senior reporters and editors.

MikeAqua

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#2520127 9-Jul-2020 14:50

Rikkitic:

That is a pretty mean and small-minded statement. From your other posts I actually thought you were better than that. Some people, and presumably you are one, simply do not approve of the PM's politics, whether because you just don't like Labour, or progressive ideas, or whatever, so you go frantically scrabbling about for anything you can find or invent to cast her in the worst possible light. This is New Zealand tall poppy syndrome at its very worst. Shame on you.

It's genuine belief that has nothing to do with her politics. I really do think she has milked the tragedy for all the international exposure she could wring out of it. I used to think Ardern was genuinely different than other politicians. I now think she is worse because she professes to be different but isn't.

She is a glory hound and accountability is not within her. At least Clark had the fortitude to sack terrible ministers.

Mike

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#2520196 9-Jul-2020 16:46

So you say - twice now. LOL.

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#2580076 6-Oct-2020 13:47

Reading through summaries of various policies by the parties, I see Labour has set itself the goal of reducing Maori in Prison by 2024 by 10%, and from 52% to 16% (Doesn't specify timeframe unless I missed it) but I have had a look, and other than some discussions around more committees and a bit of general wordiness, not much around specifics on how they intend on doing this. Does anyone have any insight or specifics they know about? I don't necessarily disagree with the policy, but it would depend on how they intend on doing it.

It's possible I am being dumb, but to reduce the number of Maori already in prison, are they going to just release them earlier than they were sentenced for?

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#2580085 6-Oct-2020 13:58

I don't have information about this but elsewhere I have seen commentary on the grossly disproportionate number of Maori imprisoned for simple cannabis possession. Whether this is related to any Labour policy or not, if simple possession became legal, an awful lot of Maori prisoners would no longer be law-breakers.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2580088 6-Oct-2020 14:01

So legalization today would be retrospective? Does it mean vacating everyones sentence?

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#2580103 6-Oct-2020 14:35

I would be happy to clean-slate anyone who has had a conviction for possession provided it isn't linked to any other type of offending (supply, dangerous driving, organised crime etc).

Rikkitic

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#2580104 6-Oct-2020 14:36

I doubt it but I only know what I saw. The rest is for you to surmise.

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