The Great Rates Rort

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Ultimate Geek
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#1900728 14-Nov-2017 15:51

Pumpedd:

1101:

Rates need to double, at least if not more.

Ak council is so far in debt (and getting worse) that we are all dreaming if we think our rates bill is the end of our commitment .
All that debt has to be paid back, eventually, by us.
Will Come a time when Ak council has trouble getting more loans at reasonable interest rate. What then.

"Auckland Council's debt is now $22,189 for every ratepayer "
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11908232

So rates need to increase to pay that off .
Too many wanting the councils to just keep on spending .

Don't be concerned, Labour will fix it at the taxpayers expense. No issue here.

What are you talking about? It's been a Labour-influenced council for the best part of a decade now...

Brown & Goff... two sides of the same coin. (except that one side seems to be able to keep his pants on at work)

Pumpedd

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#1900894 14-Nov-2017 19:02

6FIEND:

Pumpedd:

1101:

Rates need to double, at least if not more.

Ak council is so far in debt (and getting worse) that we are all dreaming if we think our rates bill is the end of our commitment .
All that debt has to be paid back, eventually, by us.
Will Come a time when Ak council has trouble getting more loans at reasonable interest rate. What then.

"Auckland Council's debt is now $22,189 for every ratepayer "
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11908232

So rates need to increase to pay that off .
Too many wanting the councils to just keep on spending .

Don't be concerned, Labour will fix it at the taxpayers expense. No issue here.

What are you talking about? It's been a Labour-influenced council for the best part of a decade now...

Brown & Goff... two sides of the same coin. (except that one side seems to be able to keep his pants on at work)

and Auckland has massive debts, it also expects the Government to fund raid and raids and Americas Cup. Doesnt Akld also own Ports and Airports? Maybe some of these should be sold to fund its own debt etc.

bmt

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Ultimate Geek
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#1902965 16-Nov-2017 21:03

Ah yes, asset sales, the true right-wing solution to all our problems!

tdgeek

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#1903084 17-Nov-2017 04:11

bmt:

Ah yes, asset sales, the true right-wing solution to all our problems!

I need money. I can:

1. Earn more income

2. Live more cheaply

3. Borrow

4, Forgo something

5. Sell the dining suite to buy groceries. Problem is I can only sell it once.

Next week I have the same issue.

6FIEND

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Ultimate Geek
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#1903113 17-Nov-2017 08:14

tdgeek:

bmt:

Ah yes, asset sales, the true right-wing solution to all our problems!

I need money. I can:

1. TAKE more income from ratepayers

2. Live more cheaply

3. Borrow

4, Forgo something

5. Sell the dining suite to buy groceries. Problem is I can only sell it once.

Next week I have the same issue.

FTFY ;-)

The real problem is that options 2. and 4. seem to be beyond the ability of Auckland Council. And, they've relied so much on option 3. that now that's no longer possible.

The only remaining options are 1. & 5.

Not a good place to be.

tdgeek

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#1903159 17-Nov-2017 10:41

6FIEND:

tdgeek:

bmt:

Ah yes, asset sales, the true right-wing solution to all our problems!

I need money. I can:

1. TAKE more income from ratepayers

2. Live more cheaply

3. Borrow

4, Forgo something

5. Sell the dining suite to buy groceries. Problem is I can only sell it once.

Next week I have the same issue.

FTFY ;-)

The real problem is that options 2. and 4. seem to be beyond the ability of Auckland Council. And, they've relied so much on option 3. that now that's no longer possible.

The only remaining options are 1. & 5.

Not a good place to be.

Fair call. The difference with my analogy, is that a human is forced to be motivated to live within their means. otherwise its bad credit rating, cant get a loan, not easy to just grab a part job for more income. With Govenments, local and national, borrowing is easy, just do it. Its almost a bottomless pit, but like most things in life, one day it will catch up, and if you can borrow easily thats liable to hurt bigly.

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Pumpedd

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#1903196 17-Nov-2017 12:42

When you live beyond your means for so long and you have reached a debt ceiling then selling some or partial assets is what is responsible.

MikeB4

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#1903211 17-Nov-2017 13:23

Pumpedd:

When you live beyond your means for so long and you have reached a debt ceiling then selling some or partial assets is what is responsible.

Selling income generating assets and infrastructure would be a silly idea and ultimately result in greater indebtedness or higher costs.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Pumpedd

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#1903213 17-Nov-2017 13:31

MikeB4:

Pumpedd:

When you live beyond your means for so long and you have reached a debt ceiling then selling some or partial assets is what is responsible.

Selling income generating assets and infrastructure would be a silly idea and ultimately result in greater indebtedness or higher costs.

So borrow more? get into worse debt?

Expect the NZ taxpayer to bail you out?

First step should be for all Councils to do a major review of costs and expenses. Borrowing by Councils has been way too easy under National.

MikeB4

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#1903231 17-Nov-2017 14:08

Unless the current system of local government is overhauled and moved to central government ratepayers will have to come to terms with paying considerably more. Population growth is putting a lot of pressure on infrastructure but climate change is going to have a far greater impact and its impact is set to accelerate. Our current system will not be able to cope.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1903457 17-Nov-2017 20:51

It's easy to be an armchair mayor and say "look at all this wasteful council spending, let's slash our communications staff by half and save $20m a year!" (and subsequently some event happens and the council does a terrible job of keeping people updated, but that's by the by)..

Then you get something like the America's Cup come along where the council is expected to pay potentially close to half of $180m odd..

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tdgeek

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#1903536 18-Nov-2017 08:00

Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

Pumpedd:

When you live beyond your means for so long and you have reached a debt ceiling then selling some or partial assets is what is responsible.

Selling income generating assets and infrastructure would be a silly idea and ultimately result in greater indebtedness or higher costs.

So borrow more? get into worse debt?

Expect the NZ taxpayer to bail you out?

First step should be for all Councils to do a major review of costs and expenses. Borrowing by Councils has been way too easy under National.

A big review for sure. If said review showed they can improve but are still in the red, it does come back to the taxpayer, as effectively the taxpayer has been paying rates that are lower than they should have been. That wouldnt be a rate increase , it would be an adjustment to correct last under billed rates. Hard to swallow, yes.

LOL I think heading a review would be a great job, every week, Hi boss, here are this weeks wasted money reports. They need to run as a tightly run business, as that is what councils are. We are the shareholders

tdgeek

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#1903537 18-Nov-2017 08:03

I still see a central platform as best. This is the one set of protocols that councils operate by. There would be massive centralisation gains on staff and system costs, as these are in one place.

Geektastic

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#1903600 18-Nov-2017 10:23

MikeB4:
Pumpedd:

When you live beyond your means for so long and you have reached a debt ceiling then selling some or partial assets is what is responsible.

Selling income generating assets and infrastructure would be a silly idea and ultimately result in greater indebtedness or higher costs.

I don't live in Auckland.

However, councils generally are administrative bodies. They ought not to be holding shares or other ownership of things that have nothing to do with that.

I would require them to run a balanced budget with borrowing for special projects requiring central government oversight and approval.

Pumpedd

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#1903652 18-Nov-2017 12:43

bmt:

It's easy to be an armchair mayor and say "look at all this wasteful council spending, let's slash our communications staff by half and save $20m a year!" (and subsequently some event happens and the council does a terrible job of keeping people updated, but that's by the by)..

Then you get something like the America's Cup come along where the council is expected to pay potentially close to half of $180m odd..

Last I saw ACC asked Govt to pay all this....

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