Farmers "Howl of a protest" against "anti farming" laws happening today, Friday 16th July.

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Forums › Politics › Farmers "Howl of a protest" against "anti farming" laws happening today, Friday 16th July.

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#2745220 16-Jul-2021 15:45

This is nothing yet - I'm really looking forward to being a spectator to the green vegan PETA wars of the 2030s.

These farmers are on a hiding to nowhere:

Farm owners are only about 1% of the NZ population, but their businesses generate almost 50% of NZ CO2e emissions.

"Tax or regulate something else - not our utes" exposes a very big elephant in the room, clearly visible on the chart above.

The "enough is enough" slogan is dumb, it should be the slogan for the 99% of us - not them.

(Chart from NZ Geographic, July/August 2021 edition)

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#2745245 16-Jul-2021 17:14

I'm surprised so many have seen fit to partake in these protests. Message seems too mixed to have any meaningful impact, and I wonder if bringing a convoy of tractors and utes into the Auckland CBD is going gain any support for the agricultural sector.

Amusingly one of the utes in the convoy was a Dodge ram 1500. They are $94,990 - $159,990, and are powered by a 5.7L petrol v8 rated at 12.2L/100km (stuff's review said they got 13.5L/100km with a fair bit of open road running, but to expect 20L/100km in a urban setting). Payload at around 800kg comes in under the that of the cheaper & more economical Thai built utes. Not sure that is the kind of vehicle you want to be displaying when one of the key complaints appears to be the "ute tax"...

Regarding the graph above, I think relatively few people are aware of the how bit the climate change footprint of the animal agriculture is. And many people argue that they are natural so should be a concern. (yes they are natural, but having 6.3m dairy cows in NZ is clearly an un natural number). NZ is going to be in a tough spot with this in the future. Dairy has one of the highest GDP contributions per capita, if we get rid of it we would be a much poorer country and our quality of life would suffer.

Brief summary from stuff:

"What are Aotearoa's farmers actually protesting about this Friday?

Today's movement is more than just frustrated cockies throwing their hands up in the air – thousands of rural New Zealanders want change, and they want the Government to listen.

Groundswell NZ has seven demands relating to specific Government policies and regulations that farmers either want scrapped or re-written. Although, it would be fair to say not all farmers want this. Many farmers that are protesting are likely protesting about the key policies that impact their businesses directly.

We took a look at what the seven policies are, why the Government is implementing them, and what Groundswell NZ said about them in its position statement:

1. The National Policy Statement on Freshwater Management. The Government introduced this to help the health of NZ's rivers and lakes.

2. The Government's Clean Car Package which aims to make NZ's cars cleaner. Farmers and tradies are upset because there's currently no electric ute alternative.

3. There's an ongoing battle for seasonal rural workers. While the Government has made some border exemptions for workers, Groundswell NZ argues they need more staff to lift pressure on the sector.

4. The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme - which is part of the country’s response to climate change. Groundswell NZ argues that there are "unworkable elements" in climate-change policy for farmers and growers. Farmers are currently exempt from the scheme. At the moment, the agricultural industry and Government are designing a different scheme to cover farms and agricultural gases, which is expected to come into effect in 2025.

5. Significant natural areas (SNAs) are natural areas aimed to protect the country's biodiversity. Some farmers see this policy as a “land grab”.

6. The Government is looking at ways to reverse the decline of indigenous biodiversity in Aotearoa and is mulling a National Policy Statement. Groundswell NZ believes the draft policy should be scrapped.

7. The Crown Pastoral Land Reform Bill is currently making its way through Parliament. It aims to amend previous land acts with a single, broad policy. Groundswell NZ argues this is another layer of regulation for rural NZers."

Regarding the list:

1. Protesting against standards to clean up our rivers seems like a weird thing to expect widespread public support for.

2. The "Ute tax" seems like a weird hill to die on. The stuff article at the top link of what I had quoted above has an organizer of the event posing in front of what looks to be a $100k+ tractor, and a 2007 Nissan Navara. The ute tax if he got a new Navara next year is just $830, Trival over the lifespan of the vehicle... The point that there is no EV ute (yet), misses the point that such a policy would still be a good idea in the absence of EV's. There are cleaner and dirtier utes. A fee free ute is already available (2wd ranger with top engine), and ford could easily bring in their 125kW 4x4 hilux tune they sell in the UK if their customer's demanded a fee free 4x4 option.

3. The sector has already seen favorable government treatment in regards to getting staff through the border. Not sure that arguing for more will go down well with the general public at a time that Kiwi's are really struggling to get MIQ rooms to come home. It is a little concerning that the sector isn't willing to offer pay and conditions that result in attracting sufficient NZ based workers.

4. Not sure why farmers would want to draw attention to the ETS, they are on a crazy good deal exempt to 2025 and then a 95% discount.

5. I don't know enough about this, on the face of it it looks like this policy needs more attention or changes.

6. Seems an odd thing to protest against. Reducing biodiversity decline seems desirable, and it is draft, so issues can still be resolved. Simply arguing for it to be scrapped makes it seem like the sector doesn't care about biodiversity decline.

7. I don't know enough about this to comment, but it seems reasonable for the crown to manage land it own's as it chooses.

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#2745297 16-Jul-2021 18:31

My personal favorite image from the whole ordeal.

"I'll bash the Government while simultaneously having them to thank for having a job and being able to put food on my table." I mean..

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#2745357 16-Jul-2021 18:45

This is the craziest protest ever as until now I have no idea what they're protesting

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#2745400 16-Jul-2021 21:02

As a rural person (horticulture) I don’t generally support the protest but in some areas I sympathise.

I think with NZ being one of the most urban countries in the world now, there is a feeling that urban voters and politicians are effectively seeking to take control of rural NZ via regulation and there is a deluge of new regulation under way.

As a small example of something that may effect me, I have a small wetland on my property. It was something I and my family saved while many in the area were destroyed. The new statement on freshwater management states that you will not be able to build within 100m of a natural wetland. Whether mine is considered “natural” might be debatable but regional councils have 10 years to map their wetlands under the rules so it might be up in the air for that long. Also it could affect my neighbours as it is close to two boundaries.

Most of these regulatory processes are already being dealt with by regional councils and now government is taking over and we have to go through the whole process again.

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#2745511 17-Jul-2021 09:18

tehgerbil:

My personal favorite image from the whole ordeal.

"I'll bash the Government while simultaneously having them to thank for having a job and being able to put food on my table." I mean..

Okay. So by the same token, Nurses and Teachers are paid by the government, so they shouldn’t be able to protest about anything either? Likewise beneficiaries?

Only politburo sanctioned protests allowed.

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#2745519 17-Jul-2021 09:31

Ultimately, no minds were changed yesterday. Farmers who are already working towards cleaning up their farms get no credit because of all idiots who can't decide whether the Labour government is communist or fascist; sympathisers of the idiots remain sympathisers; urban population largely shrugged; farmers who threaten 'no farmers no food' apparently unaware that Californian oranges are cheaper or that 'no urban no customers, tractor importers, fuel refiners & distributors, chemical manufacturers, pump, filter and pipe manufacturers, electricity or communications providers' etc. or that there are plenty of urban people also struggling big time.

The only thing yesterday's march achieved as a further entrenchment of extreme positions and a flow of reasonable people toward them.

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#2745765 17-Jul-2021 14:13

Fred99:

Farm owners are only about 1% of the NZ population, but their businesses generate almost 50% of NZ CO2e emissions.

Shame you didn’t think to include a pie chart of agricultural contribution to GDP and exports.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Fred99

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#2745844 17-Jul-2021 15:43

Dingbatt:

Fred99:

Farm owners are only about 1% of the NZ population, but their businesses generate almost 50% of NZ CO2e emissions.

Shame you didn’t think to include a pie chart of agricultural contribution to GDP and exports.

What for?

To show the % of exports under threat if we don't reduce CO2e emissions from the farming sector?

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#2745866 17-Jul-2021 17:41

Dingbatt:

tehgerbil:

My personal favorite image from the whole ordeal.

"I'll bash the Government while simultaneously having them to thank for having a job and being able to put food on my table." I mean..

Okay. So by the same token, Nurses and Teachers are paid by the government, so they shouldn’t be able to protest about anything either? Likewise beneficiaries?

Only politburo sanctioned protests allowed.

to me the attached picture merely shows the hypocracy (amongst other things) of the company shown, they are happy to put their hand out to “Stalin” and accept nearly $300k in subsidies, but gets all upset when asked to contribute for the environmental damage their diesel vehicles.

Teachers and nurses don’t accept handouts from government and then accuse them of being communists because they are asked to pay a small fee for their polluting diesel Ute.

IMHOsome of the banners these people displayed in the protests were absolutely disgusting and did nothing to get the average kiwi onside with them. As an observer the signs depicting the PM as a horse, a dog or even just referencing her to being one of the above was appalling behaviour.

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#2745885 17-Jul-2021 18:26

Lastman:
As a rural person (horticulture) I don’t generally support the protest but in some areas I sympathise.

I think with NZ being one of the most urban countries in the world now, there is a feeling that urban voters and politicians are effectively seeking to take control of rural NZ via regulation and there is a deluge of new regulation under way.

As a small example of something that may effect me, I have a small wetland on my property. It was something I and my family saved while many in the area were destroyed. The new statement on freshwater management states that you will not be able to build within 100m of a natural wetland. Whether mine is considered “natural” might be debatable but regional councils have 10 years to map their wetlands under the rules so it might be up in the air for that long. Also it could affect my neighbours as it is close to two boundaries.

Most of these regulatory processes are already being dealt with by regional councils and now government is taking over and we have to go through the whole process again.

I concur although I fit into urbanite with rural blood.
I live in the suburbs have a tree farm.
Firstly I have a 4wd as unlike suburbia, access is unpaved. I use this ute to haul around equipment and maintain tracks for fire protection and pest eradication. I do this because I believe in looking after the land rather than a profit driven adventure. Therefore I get no tax relief from government. I need a ute as there is no other vehicle suitable for towing trailers or moving material. I have no access to power on the farm so would struggle with an electric powered vehicle. People who have a legitimate use for a vehicle should not be penalised. What's going to be more interesting will be when chainsaws, brush cutters,lawnmowers etc will be banned as they are the most inefficient polluting engines in the country.
Another point to note is electric vehicles battery disposal will be the next problem NZ will face.
I to have some sections of land that I planted out to protect waterways and add diversity to the landscape. My efforts to clear Mature gorse intermingled with blackberry and return the land to it's native state was rewarded by"the government" trying to take this land and prevent me from further improving it and still expect me to pay rates. The best option was to borrow money clear the land using Large machinery and plant pines making sure lawers and accountants were involved so that losses could be used to offset liability and line the pockets of other industry polluters.
I am not going to go off topic by getting into how the landowner is penalised for havesting said trees. Yet another reason for cockies to "protest" regulation.

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#2745994 17-Jul-2021 21:30

I think the whole ute thing is being overdone if info here is correct.
They are not being banned, you are free to buy them as you ever were.

I understand it does not have to be thousands of dollars depending on vehicle you choose.
If Scott23 above is correct
"" The ute tax if he got a new Navara next year is just $830, Trival over the lifespan of the vehicle. ""

If your business has the money to buy the highest emitting, highest cost ute , levy is lot more sure, but as % of vehicle cost ?.
Well you have that money, your business return on that vehicle warrants it, then that extra levy is not going to matter.

In Europe emissions levy based on Co2 and Nitrogen emissions are common.
You see it all the time in UK car reviews where they line up vehicle costs and the yearly emissions cost.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

On UK, Farmers there are already starting to look at their response to any free trade agreements.
Some of the slogans may be just what they are looking for to show what hardworking UK farmers doing their bit need protection from ....

Fred99

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#2746081 18-Jul-2021 08:33

Dingbatt:

Okay. So by the same token, Nurses and Teachers are paid by the government, so they shouldn’t be able to protest about anything either? Likewise beneficiaries?

Only politburo sanctioned protests allowed.

That's "JDS" - Jacinda Derangement Syndrome.

If anybody thinks that's really what's going on, they should seek help.

Aj321

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#2746166 18-Jul-2021 10:00

Fred99:
Dingbatt:

Okay. So by the same token, Nurses and Teachers are paid by the government, so they shouldn’t be able to protest about anything either? Likewise beneficiaries?

Only politburo sanctioned protests allowed.

That's "JDS" - Jacinda Derangement Syndrome.

If anybody thinks that's really what's going on, they should seek help.

Its just knee jerk reactions. Public servants also get shafted. The media have a big part in directing (or redirecting) peoples frustration.

I got caught up in the demonstration .i happened to walk by and did not know it was going on. It was a great display of farm meets town. It made me a proud Kiwi to think people can protest without fear and stand up for what they believe in.

The real trouble with this sort of thing is the detail is often missing and people who are time starved miss the point or blindly follow their peers.
I actually enjoyed seeing dogs, tractors,utes and people who probably never come to town.

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#2746268 18-Jul-2021 16:20

Fred99:

Dingbatt:

Okay. So by the same token, Nurses and Teachers are paid by the government, so they shouldn’t be able to protest about anything either? Likewise beneficiaries?

Only politburo sanctioned protests allowed.

That's "JDS" - Jacinda Derangement Syndrome.

If anybody thinks that's really what's going on, they should seek help.

I don’t believe that using a sociopathic thug like Stalin is at all appropriate as a comparison. I think it would have been more appropriate to replace Stalin with Castro. A charismatic leader who took his people on a journey with him.
NZ has a similar banana republic status and we’ll probably be driving 60 year old cars in 2050.

Various MPs attended the Ihumatao, school strike for climate and cyclist’s protests, but no government MPs showed their faces on Friday.

Edit: And JDS is a bit try hard after TDS and it’s ongoing echoes.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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