How long should politicians serve?

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#1639236 23-Sep-2016 10:06

I actually think the parliamentary term should be increased. I'm not so sure about Local Body terms.

3 years is too short to get anything done. I see it as Year 0-1 - just been through election, have to solidify agreements with voting/coalition partners - find common ground on what needs to be done. - Year 1-2, start rolling out policy, introducing bills to parliament - Year 2-3 halt all that while all parties go their seperate ways to prepare for another election. I see it as wasting 2 years out of the 3 they have. Make it 4 or 5 and things may actually get done. Then you can impose term limits for the PM as the US do (though I'm not sure why they do it). The English have a long term don't they?

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#1639251 23-Sep-2016 10:16

Rikkitic:

I don't think term limits are a magic bullet that solves all problems, but I do think they are preferable to no limits as a general rule.

Paying politicians was a well-intended idea to increase democratic representation. It worked fairly well until the politicians started voting themselves so many raises that it became a financially attractive career. The 'independent' remuneration authority is a joke. Politicians should not be paid the same as corporate executives. They should be paid enough to be able to live adequately and support their families while in office. For those with genuine ideals and abilities, that is sufficient motivation and it probably even weeds out some of the dead wood that is only looking for easy money.

AFAIR, it used to be that (local?) MP's were paid the same rate as a senior school teacher - this was in the 70's? Perhaps.

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#1639259 23-Sep-2016 10:25

I would like to see the term for parliament increased to five years and local bodies abolished. Councils are a waste of time and a monumental waste of money.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1639774 24-Sep-2016 11:13

MikeB4:

I would like to see the term for parliament increased to five years and local bodies abolished. Councils are a waste of time and a monumental waste of money.

So the central government can waste even more simply replacing councils with things that look awfully like councils.

MikeB4

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#1639851 24-Sep-2016 13:26

UHD:
MikeB4:

I would like to see the term for parliament increased to five years and local bodies abolished. Councils are a waste of time and a monumental waste of money.

So the central government can waste even more simply replacing councils with things that look awfully like councils.

A single Government Department can run it and manage the out sourcing of services etc to private enterprise.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Linuxluver

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#1639858 24-Sep-2016 13:56

Most people pay no attention to local body politicians or politics. It's a thankless job that many dedicated people do on behalf of everyone.

Then some issue arises and we see posts like this that assume the people involved are time-serving parasites.

You could not be more wrong. Sure...some of them are dicks.....but they are there doing the work most of us don't even think about, never mind lift a finger.

If you think someone isn't doing a good enough job, get your name on the ballot and ask people to give you the chance to do a better job than them.

Another problem is the voting system used. Usually it is First Past the Post and that voting system tends to produce rubbish results through splitting the vote and allowing certain groups to capture all the power simply because they are the largest minority. Local government would be better served by using STV elections and then people like yourself would stand a better chance of breaking through and being elected to do the better job than the folk who are in there.

But please don't moan about local government from a position of near total ignorance. It's just.......unfair to all those who have spent hundreds or thousands of hoursof their lives chasing up the detail most of us can't be arsed even thinking about, never mind doing anything.

Anyone should be able to hold office as long they can muster the votes to get elected. There is no better or fairer way to do it.

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#1639859 24-Sep-2016 14:00

MikeB4:

A single Government Department can run it and manage the out sourcing of services etc to private enterprise.

As a prescription for close to zero accountability and sensitivity to local concerns while stuffing taxpayer cash into the pockets of crony contractors, you offer an almost perfect way to achieve that.

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#1639876 24-Sep-2016 14:50

Linuxluver: Another problem is the voting system used. Usually it is First Past the Post and that voting system tends to produce rubbish results through splitting the vote and allowing certain groups to capture all the power simply because they are the largest minority. Local government would be better served by using STV elections and then people like yourself would stand a better chance of breaking through and being elected to do the better job than the folk who are in there.

Scoop: "Councils have the choice of two voting systems, First Past the Post (FPP) or Single Transferable Voting (STV). Citizens can also request, through a petition, their council hold a poll on changing the voting system, to either FPP or STV.

Most council elections are conducted using the ‘First Past the Post’ system (FPP). This means the candidate with the highest number of votes wins. This year, seven councils, in addition to all 21 district health boards, will use the Single Transferable Voting system (STV).

Councils using the STV system in 2016 are:

Dunedin City Council
Kapiti Coast District Council
Marlborough District Council
Porirua City Council
Wellington City Council
Greater Wellington
Palmerston North City Council.

For more information about the STV system and how it works please visit the DIA website:

http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.NSF/wpg_URL/Resource-material-STV-Information-Index?OpenDocument '

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#1639878 24-Sep-2016 15:02

MikeB4:

I would like to see the term for parliament increased to five years and local bodies abolished. Councils are a waste of time and a monumental waste of money.

Exactly right. The problem with just 3 years is that governments never get a long enough term to make changes. A third of the term is wasted by all the work required for the elections.

The government are wanting to get rid of a lot of local councils, and make them into super cities. There is a reason why Auckland is so successful compared to other cities, and that comes down to the fact that they now don't have all these small tin pot councils with limited resources. Wellington councils recently voted against merging into a super city. But something is going to get forced onto them, if they don't amalgamate with other councils. The mayors and council staff obviously don't want amalgamation, due to job losses and other reasons, but they appear to be the ones who are making the decisions whether to amalgamate or not, which doesn't really make any sense. They say that local communities will lose control, but that isn't true because there will be local branches, and potentially they will have more resources, and it will be a more professional operation.

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#1639880 24-Sep-2016 15:04

Linuxluver:

Most people pay no attention to local body politicians or politics. It's a thankless job that many dedicated people do on behalf of everyone.

Then some issue arises and we see posts like this that assume the people involved are time-serving parasites.

You could not be more wrong. Sure...some of them are dicks.....but they are there doing the work most of us don't even think about, never mind lift a finger.

If you think someone isn't doing a good enough job, get your name on the ballot and ask people to give you the chance to do a better job than them.

Another problem is the voting system used. Usually it is First Past the Post and that voting system tends to produce rubbish results through splitting the vote and allowing certain groups to capture all the power simply because they are the largest minority. Local government would be better served by using STV elections and then people like yourself would stand a better chance of breaking through and being elected to do the better job than the folk who are in there.

But please don't moan about local government from a position of near total ignorance. It's just.......unfair to all those who have spent hundreds or thousands of hoursof their lives chasing up the detail most of us can't be arsed even thinking about, never mind doing anything.

Anyone should be able to hold office as long they can muster the votes to get elected. There is no better or fairer way to do it.

My understanding is that it is the council staff that do all the work and come up with most of the the ideas and plans etc. Then a lot is also contracted out to consultants. The councilors have to attend meetings and read reports etc,to approve things in meetings, but it isn't a full time job for them. Not sure if it is a thankless job either because they are paid quite well for the time. Apparently only the Mayor is a full time job, but often even they have their own businesses or other jobs, and positions on other boards whcih they are paid for.

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#1639881 24-Sep-2016 15:10

mattwnz:
MikeB4:

I would like to see the term for parliament increased to five years and local bodies abolished. Councils are a waste of time and a monumental waste of money.

Exactly right. The problem with just 3 years is that governments never get a long enough term to make changes. A third of the term is wasted by all the work required for the elections.

The three year term is about right. Yes, it does require governments to be a little more cautious about the possibility of losing support and not getting the second term. That is a good thing and also makes for a more competent government in the second term. Combination of MMP and a three year term is working well for NZ.

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mattwnz

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#1639882 24-Sep-2016 15:11

MikeB4:
UHD:

MikeB4:

I would like to see the term for parliament increased to five years and local bodies abolished. Councils are a waste of time and a monumental waste of money.

So the central government can waste even more simply replacing councils with things that look awfully like councils.

A single Government Department can run it and manage the out sourcing of services etc to private enterprise.

Which is what many councils are doing anyway. Councils should be about core services, such as water, waste, local roads etc. However many now contract out all those services to other contractors. This means having to pay for those services separately, when they were once included in the rates. Mine has just removed recycling, so if we want to recycle stuff, we have to pay for another set of bins with another rubbish contractor. Needless to say, hardly anyone in our town recycles now , I just do composting.

Linuxluver

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#1639923 24-Sep-2016 16:56

mattwnz:

Which is what many councils are doing anyway. Councils should be about core services, such as water, waste, local roads etc. However many now contract out all those services to other contractors. This means having to pay for those services separately, when they were once included in the rates. Mine has just removed recycling, so if we want to recycle stuff, we have to pay for another set of bins with another rubbish contractor. Needless to say, hardly anyone in our town recycles now , I just do composting.

The people pushing this view have no real understanding of local government. Add your name to the list.

National push this view so they can run everything from a Minister's office in Wellington and don't have to consult with anyone (beyond pro-forma, not-really-listening-anyway 'consultation').

This will be fine until you find yourself being steam-rolled by a Minister pushing apolicy that's great for a corporate or some deep-pockets donor.....and you can go sniff daisies for all they care.

We have democratic institutions for a reason. Your preference for technocratic dictatorship is clear....but that model failed in Soviet Union a few years back....and for the very same reasons.

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Linuxluver

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#1639952 24-Sep-2016 18:17

trig42:

I actually think the parliamentary term should be increased. I'm not so sure about Local Body terms.

3 years is too short to get anything done. I see it as Year 0-1 - just been through election, have to solidify agreements with voting/coalition partners - find common ground on what needs to be done. - Year 1-2, start rolling out policy, introducing bills to parliament - Year 2-3 halt all that while all parties go their seperate ways to prepare for another election. I see it as wasting 2 years out of the 3 they have. Make it 4 or 5 and things may actually get done. Then you can impose term limits for the PM as the US do (though I'm not sure why they do it). The English have a long term don't they?

It's very important Kiwis understand people in the US had terms limits promoted as a solution because the US isn't actually a functioning democracy. Some people there want to use these limits to force people out of office because the ballot box is almost useless for doing this.

They have only two parties who ever win anything.

The electoral district boundaries are defined by state legislatures - not the federal government - and the states cheat. They re-draw the boundaries to favour the party in power in that state. It's called gerrymandering....after a US state governor in the early 1800s who redrew district boundaries so profoundly skewed they named the practice after him evermore.

The result of this gerrymandering is that each two years, when House congressional reps stand for re-election, over 95% of the incumbents who stand again are re-elected.

95% +

In fully one third of all districts (there are 435 federal districts) one or other major party does not even bother to stand a candidate. The fix is in and there is no point.

In this corrupt and dysfunctional context some Americans see terms limits as the only way out....to force people out of office who can never lose an election.

Of course they could just fix the terrible system they have.....but that isn't an option because they have been told from earliest childhood it's the best system ever.

In NZ we don't need or want term limits. Just vote for someone else. It works here......unlike in the US.

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Rikkitic

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#1718914 12-Feb-2017 15:36

So glad to see I am not the only one who feel this way:

http://www.openureyes.org.nz/blog/?q=node/7974

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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