UK prime minister Boris Johnson

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#2375305 14-Dec-2019 15:37

marmel:
Fred99:

marmel: Anyway coming back to the topic I think the Scottish vote is a mute point.

Then why are you talking about it?

Well you seemed to think it was relevant

whoosh - https://www.grammar.com/moot_vs._mute

Lighten up. :-)

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#2375308 14-Dec-2019 15:45

There are several issues with Scotland joining the EU.

They couldn't join until all ties were severed with the rest of the UK. This could take many years.

Spain might block it as it would encourage the Catalonians to think they could do the same thing.

The EU would possibly pressure Scotland to adopt the Euro. Apparently you can't do that if you don't have your own currency (don't know why that is) and the SNP were suggesting they would use sterling for a while after independence.

If they joined the EU there would need to be a hard border with the rest of the UK. Scotland's trade with the rest of the UK is much larger than it's trade with the EU so that may suffer if the UK decides to impose tariffs.

Of course while talking about independence the SNP don't normally mention these issues or they scout around them as you would expect politicians/zealots to do and as happened with Brexit (which I support enthusiastically).

Fred99

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#2375309 14-Dec-2019 15:51

GV27:

Can Scotland even afford to pay for its own stuff? Like if it breaks away, can it sustain itself from general taxation within its own borders?

Apparently it should be, but it depends who you ask - because it will be complicated, and much would depend on continuation of trade "business as usual" with the rest of the UK and the EU, which still isn't a given until a Brexit deal is done. It seems that some are of the view that Scotland is a basket case. GDP per capita is about UK average. It also depends who gets the oil and gas. If it came to independence, I shudder to think about the fight over ownership of that.

BTW, please don't assume that I want it to happen or that it would be a good thing. It probably won't be, but neither is having a population with a divisive grievance, staying with the UK may only be the lesser of evils.

Fred99

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#2375352 14-Dec-2019 16:00

SJB:

Brexit (which I support enthusiastically).

I oppose it, but not because I care much about the UK, just that I don't like weakening of Europe in a time where we're heading into an era of economic war between superpowers, between the US and China. A third (and somewhat more sane IMO) large voice aids global stability.

GV27

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#2375375 14-Dec-2019 16:35

Fred99:

Apparently it should be, but it depends who you ask - because it will be complicated, and much would depend on continuation of trade "business as usual" with the rest of the UK and the EU, which still isn't a given until a Brexit deal is done. It seems that some are of the view that Scotland is a basket case. GDP per capita is about UK average. It also depends who gets the oil and gas. If it came to independence, I shudder to think about the fight over ownership of that.

Part of me also thinks that there might be a feeling of no longer being under the UK's thumb and being able to set their own agenda for social spending might lead to expectations that they can't possibly meet.

I have no idea or opinion either way, other than holding repeated referendums until you get the result you want strikes me as a bitch of a flaw with the logic of democracy.

marmel

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#2375379 14-Dec-2019 17:00

Fred99:
marmel:
Fred99:

marmel: Anyway coming back to the topic I think the Scottish vote is a mute point.

Then why are you talking about it?

Well you seemed to think it was relevant

whoosh - https://www.grammar.com/moot_vs._mute

Lighten up. :-)

I missed that, the joys of participating from an iPhone.

HP

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SJB

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#2375393 14-Dec-2019 17:47

The last Scottish referendum was a chance in a generation according to the SNP. The generations in Scotland are obviously a lot shorter than elsewhere.

Scotland has more drug deaths per capita than any other country in the Europe. It's drug death rate is actually slightly higher than the US. Maybe the SNP are trying to divert attention from more pressing problems.

marmel

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#2375442 14-Dec-2019 18:51

https://twitter.com/citizenbomber/status/1205656319396462592

He is spot on, the left have a real issue with accepting democracy if it doesn’t go their way.

Fred99

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#2375445 14-Dec-2019 19:02

marmel: https://twitter.com/citizenbomber/status/1205656319396462592

He is spot on, the left have a real issue with accepting democracy if it doesn’t go their way.

Oh FFS.

Learn to embed a tweet - or at least how to link a URL on this site.
Demonstrations happen. Of course some won't be happy with the result of the election. Hysterically calling it "militant" thus implying an official response to suppress it is warranted is horrific authoritarian BS of the worst kind.

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#2375446 14-Dec-2019 19:03

marmel: https://twitter.com/citizenbomber/status/1205656319396462592

He is spot on, the left have a real issue with accepting democracy if it doesn’t go their way.

I don't think it's a right / left thing, it's a fragmentation of society issue. Look at the birther nonsense in the US and even some of the gun stuff happening in NZ.

Society generally is getting less interested in understanding others views and more interested in demonising anyone who doesn't agree.

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#2375447 14-Dec-2019 19:03

Fred99:
marmel: https://twitter.com/citizenbomber/status/1205656319396462592

He is spot on, the left have a real issue with accepting democracy if it doesn’t go their way.

Oh FFS.

Learn to embed a tweet - or at least how to link a URL on this site.

Demonstrations happen. Of course some won't be happy with the result of the election. Hysterically calling it "militant" thus implying an official response to suppress it is warranted is horrific authoritarian BS of the worst kind.

Can you two get a room?

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#2375448 14-Dec-2019 19:04

Yeah, the rabid right promising civil war if Trump is impeached (or just defeated) really respects democracy!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Fred99

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#2375451 14-Dec-2019 19:13

Handle9:

Can you two get a room?

We'll hold a referendum on it. That'll get it sorted.

marmel

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#2375452 14-Dec-2019 19:16

Fred99:
marmel: https://twitter.com/citizenbomber/status/1205656319396462592

He is spot on, the left have a real issue with accepting democracy if it doesn’t go their way.

Oh FFS.

Learn to embed a tweet - or at least how to link a URL on this site.

Demonstrations happen. Of course some won't be happy with the result of the election. Hysterically calling it "militant" thus implying an official response to suppress it is warranted is horrific authoritarian BS of the worst kind.

Sorry between my “projecting” and not embedding links it seems to have triggered you somewhat.

You are probably aware Bradbury is fairly left on the political spectrum and I think he has a valid point, how often do we see this type of behaviour from the left when decisions don’t go their way? Remember the hysteria in the US after Trump was elected, people started wearing safety pins FFS (borrowing one of your terms sorry) to let the LGBTQ and minority communities know they were a “safe” person to approach. What a load of left, woke, bats**t crazy behaviour.

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#2375454 14-Dec-2019 19:26

The right has extremists who commit mass murder in Linwood, Charleston, Saxony and France. Both sides have lunatics and morons. The left tend to shout, the right go for guns and kill people.

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