J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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Awrrr
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#1869917 21-Sep-2017 08:17

networkn:

I predict if Labour is elected, you will see a completely different side of JA. I think there is something... darker lurking under that smile. There is a real edge to her tone from time to time.

I find it quite amusing how you manage to oscillate between 'she might be okay with more experience' and 'she has gone over to the dark side'. You just don't like her, you especially don't like Labour, but you won't admit it because you want to keep up a pretense of being even-handed. Just face up to it. You are a National voter through and through.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Fred99

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#1869923 21-Sep-2017 08:25

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I predict if Labour is elected, you will see a completely different side of JA. I think there is something... darker lurking under that smile. There is a real edge to her tone from time to time.

I find it quite amusing how you manage to oscillate between 'she might be okay with more experience' and 'she has gone over to the dark side'. You just don't like her, you especially don't like Labour, but you won't admit it because you want to keep up a pretense of being even-handed. Just face up to it. You are a National voter through and through.

Oh I don't think so. It'd be hard to get much more hysterical, extremist, and one eyed than this:

networkn:

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought so. We don't need "her" back again. I despised her. I offered to pay for her first class airfares if she took the UN Job early, but I didn't get a reply from her office. Her, Cullen and Mallard are in my opinion 3 of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. The only good thing I can say about Helen, is that I am glad she is gone. I did see her trying to stick her nose in again recently.

I don't think that's the type of comment someone attempting to present themselves as neutral and rational could make.

6FIEND

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#1869933 21-Sep-2017 08:45

Fred99:

Wiggum:

Some people have mentioned the high debt under National. I agree that is an area of concern.

This graph however shows how low mortgage rates have gone under national. I pity FHB's and most people with mortgages if interest rates return to 2007/2008 levels.

That's ridiculous. Mortgage interest rates fell globally - nothing to do with Bill English.

You're right about that @Fred99

...a graph that English can take direct credit for (despite a global trend in the opposite direction) is this one:

Call me old fashioned, but I will take "Stable & Sensible" over "Selfie & Soundbite" this time round.

(and I think this may be the first time that I've voted National in over 20 yrs)

Fred99

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#1869949 21-Sep-2017 09:05

Yes - but countering that, there's also this:

There's no free lunch. While reduction in govt debt is good, the burden of private debt will be just as crippling to NZ when the worm turns - as it inevitably will.

Edit to add a comment about the obvious - that this deterioration in private debt happened equally under Labour and National governments - so if it's something that concerns you (as it probably should IMO), then voting for neither might be a good idea.

jonathan18

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#1869956 21-Sep-2017 09:16

Fred99:

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I predict if Labour is elected, you will see a completely different side of JA. I think there is something... darker lurking under that smile. There is a real edge to her tone from time to time.

I find it quite amusing how you manage to oscillate between 'she might be okay with more experience' and 'she has gone over to the dark side'. You just don't like her, you especially don't like Labour, but you won't admit it because you want to keep up a pretense of being even-handed. Just face up to it. You are a National voter through and through.

Oh I don't think so. It'd be hard to get much more hysterical, extremist, and one eyed than this:

networkn:

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought so. We don't need "her" back again. I despised her. I offered to pay for her first class airfares if she took the UN Job early, but I didn't get a reply from her office. Her, Cullen and Mallard are in my opinion 3 of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. The only good thing I can say about Helen, is that I am glad she is gone. I did see her trying to stick her nose in again recently.

I don't think that's the type of comment someone attempting to present themselves as neutral and rational could make.

Amen!

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

Pumpedd

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#1869959 21-Sep-2017 09:17

Fred99:

Yes - but countering that, there's also this:

There's no free lunch. While reduction in govt debt is good, the burden of private debt will be just as crippling to NZ when the worm turns - as it inevitably will.

Edit to add a comment about the obvious - that this deterioration in private debt happened equally under Labour and National governments - so if it's something that concerns you (as it probably should IMO), then voting for neither might be a good idea.

Government debt massively increased under National in order to pay for Massive amounts of new infrastructure and to pay for two major earthquakes. Quite astounding it isnt much much more..

We must also remember that the last Labour Govt cancelled all major infrastructure projects that the previous National Govt had on its books. This was shortsighted of Labour and we are still paying for it now with delays. In fact I am not sure what Helen Clark spent the money on back then as I cant recall any new roads. certainly no new trains (like we have now), and no new hospitals (National has built several).

gulfa

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#1869962 21-Sep-2017 09:19

It concerns me also if some of the above (people posters) are employers I for one for sure as hell would never want to work for them.

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6FIEND

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#1869963 21-Sep-2017 09:19

Fred99:

Yes - but countering that, there's also this:

There's no free lunch. While reduction in govt debt is good, the burden of private debt will be just as crippling to NZ when the worm turns - as it inevitably will.

Interesting graph - especially when you consider the timeframes:

So - in the 9yrs of the last Labour Government, Household debt rose about 60% (From roughly 100% to 160% of nominal disposable income.)

In the 9 yrs of the current National Government, Household debt rose about 10% (From roughly 160% to 170% of nominal disposable income.)

Were you insinuating that National had somehow done a worse job?

freitasm

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#1869969 21-Sep-2017 09:26

@jonathan18:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

Wait there. You should write "The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians is a worry" - note I left out the "on this forum"

tdgeek

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#1869970 21-Sep-2017 09:27

Pumpedd:

Fred99:

Yes - but countering that, there's also this:

There's no free lunch. While reduction in govt debt is good, the burden of private debt will be just as crippling to NZ when the worm turns - as it inevitably will.

Edit to add a comment about the obvious - that this deterioration in private debt happened equally under Labour and National governments - so if it's something that concerns you (as it probably should IMO), then voting for neither might be a good idea.

Government debt massively increased under National in order to pay for Massive amounts of new infrastructure and to pay for two major earthquakes. Quite astounding it isnt much much more..

We must also remember that the last Labour Govt cancelled all major infrastructure projects that the previous National Govt had on its books. This was shortsighted of Labour and we are still paying for it now with delays. In fact I am not sure what Helen Clark spent the money on back then as I cant recall any new roads. certainly no new trains (like we have now), and no new hospitals (National has built several).

I believe they took a cautious approach to spending and paid down debt massively. As it happened, fortuitously, that came in VERY handy in the GFC, and also assisted EQ costs that the Govt bore, over and above the EQC levy reserves and insurances which were largely paid by EQC and insurance companies not the Govt. Also, didnt Labour push for the Waterview tunnel but that was squashed? National have got under way with transport infrastructure, eventually, close to election year.

networkn

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#1869971 21-Sep-2017 09:27

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I predict if Labour is elected, you will see a completely different side of JA. I think there is something... darker lurking under that smile. There is a real edge to her tone from time to time.

I find it quite amusing how you manage to oscillate between 'she might be okay with more experience' and 'she has gone over to the dark side'. You just don't like her, you especially don't like Labour, but you won't admit it because you want to keep up a pretense of being even-handed. Just face up to it. You are a National voter through and through.

Heh, I am not sure where in any world I have suggested I would consider voting Labour at this election? I am a National voter until I see enough policies that Labour put together that would compete. Their employment policies which affect 150,000 (minimum) employers is a significant problem. There are lots of others I have talked about during this thread and others.

I don't recall saying she has gone to the dark side? I said I think she "has" a dark side (do you disagree?). Another comprehension failure on your part. If you are going to continue to take pot shots, could you take an extra second or two and read what I (actually) write?

Reciprocity

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#1869990 21-Sep-2017 09:32

6FIEND:
Fred99:

Yes - but countering that, there's also this:

There's no free lunch. While reduction in govt debt is good, the burden of private debt will be just as crippling to NZ when the worm turns - as it inevitably will.

Interesting graph - especially when you consider the timeframes:

So - in the 9yrs of the last Labour Government, Household debt rose about 60% (From roughly 100% to 160% of nominal disposable income.)

In the 9 yrs of the current National Government, Household debt rose about 10% (From roughly 160% to 170% of nominal disposable income.)

Were you insinuating that National had somehow done a worse job?

Also note that the cost of servicing household debt rose steadily under Labour and has declined steadily under National. (Blue line)

This is actually a really good illustration of the effects of the two party's approaches to the economy!

tdgeek

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#1869991 21-Sep-2017 09:32

Im still undecided. It started out as good policies from both sides. But it has deteriorated to the lesser evil from both sides as well as what I see positive on both sides. Either way, "I like that, but ouch, not that"

Fred99

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#1869993 21-Sep-2017 09:34

6FIEND:

Interesting graph - especially when you consider the timeframes:

So - in the 9yrs of the last Labour Government, Household debt rose about 60% (From roughly 100% to 160% of nominal disposable income.)

In the 9 yrs of the current National Government, Household debt rose about 10% (From roughly 160% to 170% of nominal disposable income.)

Were you insinuating that National had somehow done a worse job?

No - in my opinion they both do an equally bad job.

It's a serious problem - and not unique to either party or to NZ. You have to keep the punters happy, and the "free money" being gifted by policies which fueled housing inflation (despite increased debt) was a damned good way of tricking people into the belief that the government is helping them get richer.

Wiggum

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#1870001 21-Sep-2017 09:44

jonathan18:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

I guess the same can be said about National/Act/NZFirst and its politicians.

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